FAKE ID's (False, Fake, Altered ID's)

[MiB ATL]

I] Originally posted by Bart-Man[/i]
As mentioned, there are ultimately 3 forms of false ID's:

1. Not them (false identity)
2. Fake (completely manufactured as a counterfeit ID)
3. Altered (a real DL or ID that has been physically changed to represent false information such as D.O.B., description, ect)

I would definitely argue that one would see these false IDs coming at them in this very order, with a large degree of them being what we call, "not them". Thus, being able to identify someone's facial features, height and weight should be paramount. Yes, everyone thinks that's the easy part, but when you know how to spot a fake and a good altered, you are left with the only the this criteria. And I must say that since the ID is actually legit itself, if you can't tell a legit chin or hairline, ears, nose, birthmark, jaw line, eyes or smile, your screwed. This is exactly where I see some of the best technically trained door host lose their edge.

Fake seems to be so easy to get after all this time. But by no means do I think I am infallible. I mean, how would I, or anyone else for that matter, actually KNOW if it's a very good fake if it didn't show the normal signs of a fake. Technology has proven that counterfeiters are definitely getting more savvy. This is the main reason why I thought such a broad thread, open to people from all over, would be so great. I 'm sure we are all pros, to some extent, in our own region.

Altered: I have been AMAZED at how well some people have cut and pasted, re-typed, covered, maneuvered, and programmed information on actual real ID's. The pathetic ones are truly laughable. Yet the good ones are VERY hard to notice. Another reason that if a door host is not using a flashlight; he is not worth his weight in monkey-spit! DL from New Mexico, Arizona and British Columbia are by far some of the best altered ID's I have seems and I will discuss more in the thread. But thus far, the British Columbians have been the most impressive...

[MiB ATL]

Well this thread will probably turn into a novel as did the last one, BUT Bart-Man and I feel this could be a great source of accumulated info. What I would like to do is have additional posts by ONE STATE per post. In my option and experience this will be a lot easier to look at and read when your looking for info. I could be anal and do it alphabetically, but I know that will never happen... LOL So lets keep it neat and to the point.

I would like to expand on what Bart said and classify them as I like to do it...

"Class 1"= Not them (false identity)
"Class 2"= Fake (completely manufactured as a counterfeit ID)
"Class 3"= Altered (a real DL or ID that has been physically changed to represent false information, description, etc.)

[David]

I thought that some of you could use this.

Excalibur Entertainment Group
Doormen’s Tip Sheet
· Check the expiration date. Do not accept the I.D. if it is expired.
· Do not accept “duplicate” I.D.’s, someone else may have the original.
· Do not accept paper renewal receipts without a second form of I.D.
· Check for glue lines, bumpy surfaces by the picture or birth date. Uneven surfaces indicate tampering. The surface of the I.D. should be of a consistent thickness.
· Consistency of the typeset. All of the typeset should be the same.
· Use a blacklight, flashlight or magnifying glass for close up inspection of the security features such as ultraviolet printing or micro printing.
· Look at the State logo. A state seal or logo that is partially missing or appears altered is another clue that the I.D. is fake or altered.
· Check to make sure that the hologram is real and not a sticker.
· Check for pinholes on the surface of the I.D. Bleach may have been inserted to “white out” certain aspects of a date.
· Check the I.D.’s reverse-side lettering. While the front may appear flawless, often counterfeiters merely photocopy the reverse side. Look for blurred lettering.
· Check the size, coloring, lettering, thickness and corners. Compare the questionable I.D. against a standard one, your own for example.
· Look at the person that handed you the I.D. and check their features against the ones on the I.D., photo, height, and weight. Make sure that they match or are close.
· If the I.D. is from another state, check it against the I.D. Drivers License Book.

What to do if you think that the I.D. that you have is fake:
· Ask for a second form of I.D. People that fake I.D.’s rarely carry a second back-up form of fake identification.
· Quiz the cardholder about the basic information on the I.D., such as birth date, middle initial, zip code, address or eye color. Any hesitation will confirm your suspicions.
· Have them sign a blank piece of paper and compare the signatures.

[MiB ATL]

Not a bad set rules for there I am sure. It also depends on the abilities of your doormen to perfom them. There are couple things I PERSONALLY do not agree with and would never do or defiantly have a talk with the GM to get changed if possible …

Originally posted by David
Excalibur Entertainment Group
Doormen’s Tip Sheet
Check the expiration date. Do not accept the I.D. if it is expired.
I usually allow 30 days if it is the same state and 90 days if it is out state. After that I become much more stringent on WHY they have not re-newed it IF I feel that it is for sure their ID.
Do not accept “duplicate” I.D.’s, someone else may have the original.
This I defiantly do not agree with at all. Many people loose their wallets or they are stolen or they just plain did give it so someone, that you can not control nor penalize them for. One thing I really like about a FL ID, is their “duplication” date. Only last night I got a young ladies ID from FL and I noticed a duplication date only 5 months after she turned 21. There was no doubt in my mind that the ID was in fact hers, but I did smile at her and said out of the blue… “Heather so who did you give your ID too? She only replied “Excuse me?” I said I see only 5 months after you turned 21 you had to be issued a NEW ID… Why?” She smiled and said proudly “I gave it to my little sister” I just laughed and said “Has she ever been caught?” “No she hasn’t” she said… “Ahh I see you have never brought her here” I replied with a devilish grin. She only smiled back and said “nope, but you are good”

We will never be able to control what others do in that department and can only rely on the DMV’s and the police to lay down more harsh penalties for ID fraud. Until then your keen eye and quick thinking will be your only defense.

Do not accept paper renewal receipts without a second form of I.D.
Very rarely will you be given a paper renewal without the original ID. In fact 98% the time I have to ask to see the renewal or extension form and half the time they do not even have one.
And in my experiences on those rare occasions when you handed a ticket for DUI or a lost license the person has about four different forms and a usually embarrassing story about why they do not have an ID and 9 times out 10 they are well over 21 and it will be quite obvious…

What to do if you think that the I.D. that you have is fake: Ask for a second form of I.D. People that fake I.D.’s rarely carry a second back-up form of fake identification.
This I also disagree with… Almost always when someone has a fake ID they will offer you “back-up” immediately. They are always prepare just because they are questioned often and the most come response I get when I have someone with some else’s ID is “I have back-up” This only makes me laugh and confirms my suspicions even more so. Most people do not carry more than one form of govt. issued ID unless they in fact are (military, police or some state or federal agency) and really how often is someone of that statue going to even need to produce a second ID… Back-up usually are only college ID’s and expired credit cards either given by the original owner or obtained at the same time the ID was stolen or lost…

Again other than that the rest is some very good information and should be taken seriously... Again just my opinion and experience talking sorry David… ;)

[David]

No problem Matrix. Your points are well taken. That's the glory of the First Amendment. We do practice what we preach 99.8% of the time in the Club.

Sure there are exceptions to the rules but, the rules are there for a very important reason and that's to protect the Clubs liability. A five dollar cover and fifteen dollars worth of liquor sales aren't enough to risk our license. Those things that you pulled from my earlier post are things that we stumble on all of the time. We get enough traffic and patronage that we can pick and choose our cliental most of the time. And, I'm not trying to be arrogant.

One thing that I picked up on though is the Duplicate ID info. Heather even admitted that she had given her Original ID to her underage sister. What I usually observe is the opposite. The younger sibling will borrow the "of age" siblings Birth Certificate and so on and get a Duplicate ID with their picture and pertinent info. This has happened to me too many times. This is why I have incorporated this into our Door staffs training.

OK, two things. We don't accept Expired ID's because of the fact that it's illegal in our state to present one after it's expiration date. Sure they have thirty days past the expiration date to get it renewed. It's the ones that are over that time frame that we refuse to honor.

All of the things in the earlier post are subject to question. What it does for our Door staff is give them a way out. I have also found that most people that are too lazy to get their DL renewed usually don't spend much in the club and by nature are of the less desirable patron group.

[MiB ATL]

Originally posted by David
We don't accept Expired ID's because of the fact that it's illegal in our state to present one after it's expiration date. Sure they have thirty days past the expiration date to get it renewed. It's the ones that are over that time frame that we refuse to honor.

Something I also agree with strongly, but my current club it is not a big concern to them, something I hope to change...

Originally posted by David
The younger sibling will borrow the "of age" siblings Birth Certificate and so on and get a Duplicate ID with their picture and pertinent info.
This can be pretty much impossible to stop in the case of getting the fake. I know NJ to be a huge contributor to this rule, they require no proof to walk in other than your birth certificate and a SS card...
With homeland security falling into place and the risk of ID fraud becoming much more serious I hope to see the govt. changing some of these polices and making the punishment more sevier and the easily accessibility of it made more difficult.

I have also found that most people that are too lazy to get their DL renewed usually don't spend much in the club and by nature are of the less desirable patron group.
Again another huge pet peeve of mine. I will actually at times become verbally displeased and make sure they know it. I will make them tell me why it takes a person nine months to NOT go to the DMV... It usually comes with a warning and with my photographic memory working most the time I will remember the ID… If I receive any hint of cockiness or backtalk I will very quickly ask them to exit the line and come back when they can learn to follow the rules, be more respectful, AND have a valid ID. Sometimes it may sound harsh, but do not get me started on the breakdown of honesty, respect, and disgusting disregard for authority in today’s society. No one likes the DMV, but come on nine months…Get life, get job, buy some friends!!!

[Mad Dog]

Here's what our local law enforcement has been pulling the last three years. They will send a minor into a liquor store or bar with a fake ID to try and buy alcohol. When the minor gets served, he procedes outside to the under cover and they walk back in and bust the place. This to me seems as entrapment. The minor is using a fake ID,prepared by a gov.agency,which in others words,would be very, very hard to detect.He is breaking the law trying to get served. They have busted 7 places so far with this setup. Looks to me like this is just plain illegal, but it hasn't been challenged in court yet.Any comments, or has anyone saw something similiar where they are?

[MiB ATL]

That is entrapment and considered illegal in most the areas I have worked at. Someone’s very desperate to keep their job OR loose it one of the two? Any decent lawyer with some fact and proof would get any good judge to throw that out in heartbeat.

I know of few cases in DC where ABC tried that back in the day, with 20yr old agents talking their way in or sneaking in, BUT never can they show a fake and make a case.
Any good fake with proof it was checked and just not caught should never land you in the fire, BUT I have never heard of any agency USING a fake to “pop” a place… That goes way past the line in my book and I would fight that until my last breath in court!

~MATRIX

PS... I will be posted pic of some good and bad fake ID's this week and we will talk about each state, stay tuned...

[MiB ATL]

Lets start with FL... I know thats Bart's fav now so jump in anytime here bro...

Here is a good example of a FAKE ID, and ATLERTED ID, and a REAL FL.

First ID, we can see that at first glance its not all that bad, then you start to see tiny flaws in the font and type set. Then we see the hologram is not quite right.

[MiB ATL]

Next we see one of the best ALTERED ID's I have seen in while...
I call this "lifting" the remove the numbers from the PVC and replace them with new numbers. I know on here the scans do not show the detail you eye will catch, but this will show you where to look. You will notice that the her birth year in the DL # has a smaller font. This is a dead give away. Also her holograms looked tampered with. They lost their luster from having the laminate removed...

[MiB ATL]

And of course we have a REAL ID I took from a young man that seem to have shrunk from 5'8 to about 5'5"... :D
He must have had his ears fixed as well... You should been there.

[MiB ATL]

Just to show you how easy it is to make an ID for some, here is one I purchased off eBay. And for those of you that know me, know I have know Brit for years so I had to have this... But it just shows how easy it can be done and how close they can be!

[MiB ATL]

Now here is an example of how BAD some of them will be. The scary part is there are some people that would be fooled by this ID. If you have people working your doors that are fooled this easily you only asking for a lawsuit... NOTICE what we call "Lock and Key" hologram. This is an example of an ID Bart and I would bust out laughing at upon even seeing it. Believe it or not this guy argued with me for over 15 mins... :rolleyes:

[MiB ATL]

Now as lame as the old school FL ID's are they were ahead of their time. This ID was one of the first to offer a UV hologram, unfort none of these have that cuz there FAKE... :p

This is ONE scan, so to get TWO ID's of the same guy from two DIFFERENT guys is not only funny, but shows that at times these things are also at times mass produced. :DAlso look for trends like DL numbers OR camera numbers being the same... These were no doubt all made by the same person. Bart anything to add? Before we move on to another state?

[MiB ATL]

Back to some of the codes for quick reference. Most fakes or altered ID's get these right, BUT once in while you will see a birth year not match the birth code in the DL number. I once got ID from a young lady that swore she was born in 1987 like her ID said, but her DL # was C588-432-51-002-0 which would have ment she was born in 1951... :eek:I told her she looked VERY good for her age and sent her on the walk of shame... =D
Keep watch also for the FIRST letter in the DL # to match the first letter in their LAST name. Always keep an eye on the duplication dates as well.

[Bart-Man]

Great job on the scanning, Ryan. Perhaps I should get one and contribute my “wod” as well. Your reply was truly an experienced one.

As for the list of rules, allow me to add a few points…

“Do not accept expired or duplicates”. First ask, why shouldn’t we? Because expired IDs are often passed down from other people to underage drinkers once they are of no more use to the owner. And duplicates are very often easily obtained without a true background check. Many times, and in some states, you don’t even need to personally be at the DMV to get one. Also, many people can just say they lost their ID, get a “dup” for 10 bucks, and pass it down to someone. Therefore, these have become commonplace for underage drinkers. These rules also apply to state ID cards (little or no background check). So, because of this, many establishments make it a rule to simply not accept them at all.

You know, technically, bartenders should not stack orders either. But some of the best I have seen and worked with can double sales from those who do not. This is a VERY good thing! The difference? Simple expertise.

On a given night at the busiest club I have ever worked, I can say that typically I would see about 20-25% of IDs shown fall into the DUP, STATE ID, or EXPIRED category. And normally, these persons would be turned away. We would not be able to reap their business. And for what? Because it could jeopardize or license. Well, in my opinion, a good door host would be able to eliminate much of the chance had in the situation by clever questioning, a good read on lying, being able to trip up liars, good ol’ experience at the door and knowing how to effectively check back up IDs.

With state IDs, I encouraged door hosts (upon receiving them, they would send them to the VIP host across the line who has the time to evaluate the person in question) to check back up, all the while engaging in short conversation. If the person had an entire wallet, do not take what they give you. Ask for an ID that is not being offered to you and check that. Gauge the ID and others while politely explaining that this is the only way he can be sure to deviate from the door policy to let them in. Dependant on the many clues given by conversing and physical proof showed, a very good door host could make a call. He would base it on how comfortable he was with his “experience” with the person, and of course, by how old they actually looked.

“Dups”, the same. And yes, ASKING and LISTENING why they do not carry a license or have lost it is paramount. The point David had is perfectly sound. However, I lost my NJ Divers license and walked around with a dup for 2 years at 25 years old. Hey, it’s the Pollack in me. Shit happens. I was glad to not be persecuted for it every single time I wanted to go out. Still, I pretty much just asked for it and got it. But your license will be safe if you accept a DMV issue, state driver’s license with picture. The courts that deal with these issues already know that DMVs throughout are not infallible and need to excuse operators in such events. At Ryan’s joint they take pictures of certain IDs being accepted. Maybe Jersey should be a staple snap shot???

Expired, man, I have seen plenty of hosts deny someone with an expired license up to 6 months. The ID was them, plain and simple, and they still denied them. Lets get real. If you are absolutely SURE it is the person on the ID, and the ID is good, and they are of age, take it. Your primary concern is if they are of age. If you are sure they are, then why would you care if they were too lazy to renew? Chances are there is money in that wallet that is looking to be dropped in your till. David, that is one harsh law. For a state with an Autobahn-like speed limit, I am surprised they actually demand you don’t accept expired’s. Yes, it’s good to not let in undesirables, so I would post this info. But making acceptations, only when warranted, is fine by me.

Basically, I believe some rules can be deviated from at the door, but an operator needs to establish WHO is good enough to do it. With such a person, your margin for error drops to almost nothing. You also need to consider (crucify me if you will) that there is still little chance that this person, IF they get by the door host with their convincing story, body language, back up IDs, older look, would be picked up by vice, police or other faction. You did the best you possibly could as a responsible operator, and have also been forgiving to the public as a whole looking beyond a very strict set of rules, to let him/her in. Adhering to this set of rules can lead to upset “legal” customers, a bad rap by them to their friends, a good loss of business (even if just for that night), problems at the door explaining to them your rules and many of you experienced persons out there know of the domino effect that these would boil into that are just all negative. The good side: you MIGHT, MAYBE at a very slight margin be popped. You can also be popped for about 20 other violations in a given moment in this realm.

Again, just being in this business is a huge liability. I think we need to face this. We temper the money we make with the real fact that we might get shut down, face fines, be arrested, or, at worst, get someone killed. But as long as we are as responsible as we can be along the board, doing our best to make good business, then we are being true to society who allows us to even create the social atmosphere it desires in nightclubs, bars and restaurants.

So, in a nutshell, door hosts need to be trained well and beyond what they are currently being expected to know. Your business, its profits and existence, is counting on it.

MAD DOG: I’m sorry, but I will question you on this. Most people still think that a fake is a fake. It’s not. There are “fakes”, “altered IDs”, and “ID fraud (a real ID, but just not the person showing it). Please refer to my post at the beginning of this thread to further explain. When you say law enforcement used “fakes” to get in, Ryan is right, it’s entrapment. They can’t do this and they know it. In stings, almost all law enforcement use a decoy using another’s ID, OR they use a decoy with an ID that clearly shows they are not of age. This is the only way they can make a case with no exceptions. Also, when the decoy uses an ID that’s not theirs, it won’t even look like them. When establishments fall to such stings, even I agree they are truly guilty. They want an open and shut case, not one that can be debated by saying, “well, it does look a LOT like the decoy”.

RYAN, I might have to buy you a better scanner. The first Florida is pretty awesome. I’d like to see it more clearly. I passed it initially thinking it was real. Good job. You also make the point that some Florida fakes don’t get the Last name and Year right on the ID #. One of them you posted showed this (the one with the LOCK AND KEY).

Also, LOCK and KEY holograms are synonymous to SKELETON KEY and SEAL OF AUTHENTICITY = FAKE! A hologram should depict a state logo of some sort, not a universal statement meant to make you believe “THIS IS NOT A FAKE ID”.

As for those that argue with you when you know it’s fake, altered or not them. Their confidence can only be destroyed by how well you can convince them that you KNOW it’s false. Their persistence is often fueled by the aura of your uncertainty. You must BELIEVE in yourself and show it. Tell them also that you get $$$ from the police dept for turning them in but you did it as a kid and feel bad for seeing others get arrested and fined up to $500 for using them. If he/she leaves, no harm done. If they stay and continue to piss you off, you’ll take pleasure in seeing them go to jail. I’ve been told, “Thanks for confiscating my ID” more times than I know.

[David]

Thanks Matrix for the great post. Keep them coming.

I have one question for you and Bart. Is it true that all DMV's use the blue background behind the photo? I was told this a while back by a friend. Just after he told me this, I had someone present a DL with a white background. I confiscated the DL and now have it in my collection.

[Bart-Man]

I know many do, but I don't have my ID-book on me. I am sure you carry one. You do have an ID book, Dave?

NY's are like a gray, I'm certain. And though many are blue, they are somewhat different shades of blue, not just sky blue.

A white background? Hmm...what state? Sounds fishy, as I can't recall a state with a white background. Did you confiscate it on any more merit than that? If a fake got that part wrong, I'll just bet that the hologram must be dotty or that you would notice a paper grain over a flashlight.

Dang. We should all just get scanners.

[happybaboon]

White backgrounds are bad the world over. Most countries insist on a passport, DL photo etc being taken with a light coloured background, this makes it easier to determine dimensions from the photo, and makes forgeries more obvious (or so I am led to believe). Whitespace is very easily dealt to if you want to forge something.

What are the penalties (for underage drinkers, and for establishments) in your states?

Here the fine for drinking underage is $200 (rarely enforced), where presenting a falsified document is a hefty fine of $5,000+ (would generally rarely be enforced on minors though)

For establishments it's worse - $10,000 for the individual (whoever stuffed up by not checking ID) and $100,000 for the establishment - I doubt that this would be enforced in the case of a very good falslsely presented ID.

We're fairly well set up in NZ - Only passports, NZ Drivers licences (which I'm certain would be absoloutly impossible to alter effectivly) and Hospitality Association (HANZ) cards are acceptable ID - The security on the HANZ cards is a little poor, I'll scan one and post it at some stage, but really all it features as a security device is a hologram proclaiming "Official", "Authentic" and "Genuine"

[Bart-Man]

Heck, I couldn't tell you the fines from state to state where I have worked. Every state is different. Still, I don't mind smudging the truth a bit when trying to break a fraud perpetrator. As long as I show confidence in my comment, and they are fully aware that there is SOME penalty (as most persons are), I figure raising it a few (hundred) might get them to walk sooner.

Establishments can get hit differently also. I worked in Jesrey as a bartender and got popped by local authorities when I served an underage, undercover sherriff's officer. It was brought before a town council (not ABC???) and instead of fining me they settled on the firing of the door host who actually let her in, as well as a two, consecutive weekend close (approx $45,000) in business to them.

Usually, bartenders get fined up to $1000.00 and usually get canned (so that the establishment looks like they are in compliance). They also can be arrested on the spot.

[David]

Yes Bart I do have an ID Book. I just didn't have it on me when I posted. I will bring it to Vegas for the Nightclub & Bar Show and beat you with it until you can recite the alphabet backwards.

[Bart-Man]

You see, actually, it's not a very large book. Its a pretty small soft cover and only about 60 pages worth. Your petty threat means nothing to me. If you knew what an ID book was, you would not have posed such an innocuous solution to my implying you don't have one.

Okay, I knew you would have one. I wasn't suggesting you don't more so than wondering why you hadn't yet confided in it for your answer. And for the record, no manner of physical beating would ever render me the impressive ability to recite the alphabet backwards. That dealio is hard enough the normal way!

Okay, now onto more ID stuff...

RYAN: I understand new, bar-code and vertical Military IDs are here and are very prominant in replacing the old, easy to photo copy-info and past on rear type. Have you any info on how these are altered? You are still in the military, no? Have you seen any false ones yet?

[MiB ATL]

As far as the white back grounds… Ahh no. All backgrounds I have seen or know of ALL are a blue to bluish-greenish backdrop. The ONE white one I have seen was a NJ DL I took about 2 yrs ago and I still have. But we will get into NJ’s soon I am sure…

Originally posted by Bart-Man
I understand new, bar-code and vertical Military IDs are here and are very prominent in replacing the old, easy to photo copy-info and past on rear type. Have you any info on how these are altered? You are still in the military, no? Have you seen any false ones yet?

You are referring to the C.A.C. Cards or (Common Access Card). Another brilliant waste of money for the Govt. They are supposed to (SOMEDAY) :rolleyes: replace all the security cards so your ID and security swipe cards are all in one... Even log you onto computers... :rolleyes: I will post a pic of mine this week... Yes Bart I am still in (13yrs and counting) and I do have one.

There is a single (copper colored) eagle DOD hologram dead in the center overlapping the bottom right corner of your photo. NO I have yet to see one faked or altered. I am sure just because they are so new. I am sure some idiot has done it and all I can say he better pray he doesn’t give it to me, now that I recently became a Navy MP. The birth date is on the back over the top of a smaller version of your picture that is back and white. Now ONLY armed forces personnel will have the second photo on the back. DOD civilians do not! Second the cards are ONLY good for three years from the issue date, no matter when your enlistment is up. Also after about a year the birthdays will start to rub off just from being in your wallet and the date can look VERY faded and may take a good look to see. Do not jump to the idea that he tried to rub it off and start accusing them, these cards suck! Remember is you have doubts ask for his regular ID. There should be no reason he doesn’t have it on him.

Also remember not all states require active duty RE-NEW their state DL or ID cards. Some states have what the call “auto-extensions” so do not give a military guy crap for his ID being expired, most have 90 days from the day their military ID card expires to get a new license or state ID. Very FEW states do not auto-extend. If I can get my hands on the list soon I will post what states do and do not!

Also watch for small groups of active duty guys coming in to the club. What will happen is you will get a small groups of like 5 were you get 4 military ID’s and the last guy hands you a STATE ID. I have learned to not only look at the birthdates, but with military GROUPS, take quick look at their NAMES. The fifth ID 8 out of 10 times will be the same name as one of the military ID’s you already checked. Not always but most the time they try to play that game… Then they will give you the designated driver story or try to talk there way out of it. I usually am pretty cool with them and just warn them I have the power to ruin their night and send them on there way… You will see tons of fake backs on the green ones, NOT the CAC cards. I also remind them of the trouble they could get into if the issue was pressed of altering a GOVT ID. That becomes federal and you want to talk about fines...

[David]

I have only seen a couple of the altered, old style, Military ID's. I did keep them and give them to their CO the following Monday. I wasn't trying to get anyone in trouble. It turns out that one of the M-ID's wasn't even the guy that handed it to me.

From that point forward, we now ask for their State Issued ID when ever we are offered a M-ID. We don't have a large military presence in our town. We do have four reserve centers, two recon units and some other active personnel. So, we only get about a dozen or so on any given weekend.

[Bart-Man]

In San Diego, we saw about 1 M-ID every 8 checked. We confiscated them if someone used anothers to try to get in. The fine and disciplinary action is pretty serious for those guys if they get busted. I would feel bad since all those Marines will soon be picking sand out of their asses in Iraq, so I would give it back to them with a long speech...IF they were cool, AND admitted it.

One Sunday morning some Marine came back with his CO to retrieve his ID after being confiscated the night before. I had it, but told the CO we only confiscate if its not them. This Marine was adimant that we took it from HIM. There was a little hassle but I believe the CO knew the deal by the time they left. This is another reason why we went to "Confiscation Receipts".

On a peice of paper on a clipboard:

-Name of your establishment.

-Date and time.

-Reason for confiscation (check one):

1.) Fake

2.) Altered

3.) Another person's identity

-Additional comments made by confiscatee:

-Confiscated by___________


Before we confiscated anything, we acted unsure and simply had them sign their name for verification on a piece of paper (which was the rear of the actual receipt. Then, we had proof of signature from whomever handed the ID to us. I would clip the reciept to the ID and either hand it to vice or, if a CO ever came by again, I could just show them the signature attached by whomever tried to use it.

This became a very effective tool in protecting us when we began confiscating.

RYAN: I would love to see these ID's. Thanks for the info as well. VERY helpful! I haven't even seen a new one here in Florida yet.

[MiB ATL]

Well as promised here is the C.A.C. remember what I said about it ONLY being good for 3 years. The pictures (front and back) match the person. Look at the name and rank as well. Quiz them if needed. Ask for their state ID, even expired will show sometimes the SSN matches and date of birth if you have doubts.

[MiB ATL]

The back will be in horizontal format NOT vertical like the front. ONLY active/reserve duty will have the second picture on the back. Civilian will not. The SSN number appears in the center above bar code. The birth date is printed over the picture with blood type appearing above. Will post some altered OLD green ID's next before we move onto a new state.

[MiB ATL]

Here is all the official info on the C.A.C. NOTE the warning for faking these... Moving along, pick a state, any state? :D

[Hooligan]

First off, Nice to see a Forum this is great, Also nice to see some familiar "faces"...
Concerning military IDs, I recently confiscated a gold colored military looking ID, the picture was awful on a white background, the lousy picture was the initial tip-off, but the idiot had his wallet open and i could see his social security card and the names didnt match up. anyway a little while later a guy came in and asked for the ID, I told him to nope and he left. my question is are there gold military Ids? maybe a dependant card? or maybe it was just fake, i think it said the rank was retired airforce...

Also what exactly is wrong with the first FL ID (in the pics)?
what are the holorgams supposed to look like, and where are they supposed to be? I get a lot of FL ID's and im sure some have to be fake, Im just not that familiar with them so I can't seem to cath them, and the ID book isnt a real big help with them.

Another thing, Im thinking about getting Uv lights for checking IDs? do these help? are they worth having? do fakes ever have fake UV markings?

thanks again

[happybaboon]

Why would the air force issue IDs to retired personell? :D

I doubt there are any gold IDs worth taking - gold speckles would interfere with holograms if they were used... And gold is tacky.

White backgrounds are always bad - genuine passports worldwide have lightly coloured backgrounds.

I would say don't bother with UV lights - if you take acceptable care to ensure that the person is over the legal age without using UV lights, and someone under the age gets in with a very good fake, then the authorities will be more interested in finding out who made such a good fake than prosecuting the establishment. And if you saw fake UV markings, you oculd be easily convinced that the ID was genuine whereas with the naked eye you might notice other faults. If it's cheap enough, consider one as a final check perhaps?

[David]

Why does Arizona have an expiration date of 2015 or 2025 on their DL's? The people that have those DL's physical looks will change way before they have to renew. Are these real or fake?

[Hooligan]

I' pretty sure I read in the ID book, that AZ have 40 year expire dates, Im pretty sure they will loose or destroy their lisc before the 40 years is up, (eventually everyone in AZ will have a duplicate). Anyway all of the AZ I've seen latley have the way out expire date so Im assuming they are real.

[MiB ATL]

Originally posted by David
Why does Arizona have an expiration date of 2015 or 2025 on their DL's? The people that have those DL's physical looks will change way before they have to renew. Are these real or fake?

No David, these are not fake; AZ has the strange law of setting their expiration date to be on the individuals 65th birthday. It used to be the 60th. After that they expire every 5 years thereafter.

[David]

Boy, that's really dumb.

[MiB ATL]

Originally posted by Hooligan
Concerning military IDs, I recently confiscated a gold colored military looking ID, the picture was awful on a white background, the lousy picture was the initial tip-off, but the idiot had his wallet open and I could see his social security card and the names didn’t match up. anyway a little while later a guy came in and asked for the ID, I told him to nope and he left. My question is are there gold military Ids? Maybe a dependant card? or maybe it was just fake, I think it said the rank was retired air force...

Well Hooligan that’s exactly what you were given. You received a dependent ID. The retired air force rank you saw was the dependent's sponsor . Here is an example of what you saw (SEE ATTACHMENT) I am sure. These are pretty rare for fake ID’s, but as you see I do have one… :D As chessy as they look they are REAL. It will either have a fake back or just be a different person. I never seen one made from scratch. I am pretty sure they guy that came and asked for it was the true owner. Again remind them this is a GOVT doc and is a FEDERAL Offence to forge a government document.

Originally posted by Hooligan
Also what exactly is wrong with the first FL ID (in the pics)?
What are the holograms supposed to look like, and where are they supposed to be? I get a lot of FL ID's and im sure some have to be fake, Im just not that familiar with them so I can't seem to catch them, and the ID book isn’t a real big help with them.[/i]

Well its fake… LOL I know a scanner does not do as well as holding it. If you look at the second and third ID’s you will see the holograms have more of a ghost look to them. The upper ID had a fake hologram. You will just have to take a close look at some real ones. Sometimes if I need to refresh myself and on a slow night I wait till I get someone who you know is of age and just ask them if you can look at there ID for min. Take in the detail. Or borrow your friends ID when sitting around. Ask around to your fellow employees, you will be surprised how many people will have out of state licenses that work with you everyday...

Originally posted by Hooligan
Another thing, Im thinking about getting UV lights for checking IDs? Do these help? Are they worth having? Do fakes ever have fake UV markings?


I love mine, I rarely use it for U.S. ID's anymore just due to the fact I will see something else that clues me in to it being fake before I need to even use the ID. Once in while you might see an ID that has been tapered with that the UV hologram might have been broken and the light would show that. Just under 30 of the 50 states have one ID or another using a UV hologram, not to mention all major debt and credit cards and dollar bills use UV properties. As for “FAKE UV” I have never seen one or one even attempted, Bart thinks he got a Minnesota one once, but I don’t believe he is positive?

[Hooligan]

You are so damn smart...
Now if you are taking requests for states...what do you know about NC, SC, GA ,VA, and TN?

[happybaboon]

...United States Uniformed Services?

That just sounds too lame :D

I'm surprised at how most US licences seem to be laminated cards - Are these really old ones? Are newer licences scanned photos on laminated plastic cards?

[Bart-Man]

Also what exactly is wrong with the first FL ID (in the pics)?

The first FL DL is actually not all too bad. Well, not like the Britteny Spears one, anyway. The Hologram is pretty darn close but I think what Ryan sees that we do not is the dot matrix or "pixels" that probably exist in it. I don't think we would be able to see the "state shape" as profoundly as we do in it on this site as we do in a real one. Still, the hologram in FLs are the state shape and "FLORIDA" (again, the hologram itself was the correct one, but it may have been reproduced to indicate it was faked. We just can't tell here on the site. Naturally, it should be refelctive or a "ghost image").

Here's some other tips for FLs:

The very bottom of the picture should line up perfectly to shoot directly between the "d" and the "i" of "Florida" to the left of DL. Bear in mind that if the person in the ID is wearing a white shirt, you may lose the bottom border as it blends into the white card itself and thus, no bottom picture border is visible. Oh, and it would appear that they had me against a fairly light, or possibly WHITE background when they took mine. This is why I think that saying white backgrounds are fake may be a bit hasty. Perhaps it was tan or an off white, but its just to hard to tell in mine and others. Know your individual states.

Also, in the FL DL#, you should notice that the first letter is the first letter of the last name, the two digit code represents the year of birth and that the three digit code near the end represents the sex (males are 499 and under, females are 500 and up). Obviously, the 1st one Ryan shows is not consistent with this.

So, in other words, John Smith who was born in 1988 should have a DL # that reads something like S422-075-88-356-0. Amy Smith's (born in 73) should read something like S422-075-73-644-0. The other numbers represent other stuff as well, but frankly, I think these are the easiest to recall and are plenty to lend you a hand here.

UV lights: Good for some IDs but not all. Some believe they are the ONLY tool you need to detect a fake or altered. Its just inexperience on their part. Don't hold it against them...just don't let them work your door.

As for the Minnesota one I confisacted, the UV of the Mallard Duck was actually very impressive. But get this, it looked better on the fake than on the real ID. On the real ID, the duck was rigid and clearly computer generized in that the edges where it should have curved were not smooth but angled. The fake had completely smooth curves to it. I can't remember now but one had a much brighter resonance to it than the other. Anyway, I was not sure about this being a fake (all the other signs were in check, save a few tiny red flags) so I subtly interrogated him and he broke, and man, thats always a home run! Vice took that one from me and never returned it (*%#&%@)!

AZs: This also poses a problem in that they get to keep the license so long that the picture begins to fade in time. I have seen AZs where the pic is almost all gone of the person. Obviously, do NOT accpet one that is in this bad a shape. Everything should still be indentifiable to accept it. It has become a useful tool for those who borrow IDs to say, "Dude, you know AZ IDs fade, we can't help it...IT'S ME, DUDE!" (as if the "dude" was not giving it away).

Hools: almost all cards are now going the way of swipe and out of lamination. Just check your ID book and see where we are at with that. Laminated states will catch up very soon, I'm sure. So many have turned so rapidly in the past two years, it won't be long for others to follow.

Matrix: Hey, man. Great job on the Scanning. I'm no computer dummy, but have actually never even used a scanner in my life. I may get one for this purpose alone.

Question: As for the laminated states (and please forgive me for not remembering) can you feasibly see through ANY of them with a flashlight? For instance, NJs are laminated, but you should not be able to see through them with a flashlight (not even a stinger). I have seen some good NJ reproductions, infallible by these standards alone. Are there any legit Lam states that the ID CAN, in fact, be seen through with a light? Obviously, I know of the other signs that would be present, but this was asked of me by one of my new door hosts and I don't like the words, "I don't know".

Hey, I am out of practice by about 7 months now!

[ZEN]

i'm a huge fan of the id machine. run the license through the machine and tells the pertenent information. it is a great tool in ADDITION to the regular check. it also stores the information in its memory to help assist in any liability issues. morover, you can create an awsome mailing list from the best demographic around....those who have been in your club.
zen
shepherds nite club

[MiB ATL]

Thank God you didnt use the word scanner in front of Bart... :p

[Bart-Man]

Alright, the thing I have against scanners aren't the great things that Zen listed. It's how many places use it as their only option. They feel they can plop just anyone in front of one of those and they are fully protected. There are just too many other factors to write about that a great door host can accomplish on top of all that an ID scanner can do.

Still, it would seem the authorities think that this is the end all tool for discovering false identification, and in that, it does have some benefits since they will feel you are SOOO on it by having one.

Whatever makes them happy.

But anyone who says, "Dude, you don't need to know all that stuff you do...just get a scanner!" You can SMELL the inexperience with a comment like that.

[MiB ATL]

Need we mention the FAKE CA DL with the encoded mag strip that WILL SCAN that you can get for about $100.00 on the street... :mad:

Hooligan, what state would you like next?

~MiB

[Hooligan]

Oooh! Oooh!
Something southern? SC GA VA?

Also, was reading teh ID guide, and Keep in mind I failed math (3 times) in High school, but how does this soundex(sp?) code system work for IDs? does it help?
thanks again

[MiB ATL]

Originally posted by Hooligan
Oooh! Oooh! Something southern? SC GA VA?

Lets go with GA, since thats my new home! :D


Originally posted by Hooligan Also, was reading teh ID guide, and Keep in mind I failed math (3 times) in High school, but how does this soundex(sp?) code system work for IDs? does it help?

Well, I understand SOME of it, but it gets VERY complicated and I am working on understanding it more myself before I pass on any info.

[Club Security]

Bart, Bart, Bart... Is this the same Bart from San Diego's PBG? If so, whats up brother! If its not that Bart.... never mind.

Anyway, as to soundex, it isn't real hard. It was started to help with the US Census numbers in the 1900's. It continues to be used and yes, Florida uses the simplist form from the 1900's.

I learned the system years ago when I started my company, Nightclub Security Consultants. There is a website that does a great job in explaining it. Sorry, I don't want to put the site here... I guess it's the cop in me coming out.

Anybody coming to Vegas for the Show can stop by my booth and I will show you everything you wanted to know about soundex. Honest!

Bart, if Bart-Man is you... nice to see you are still around. Hope to see you in Vegas.

For those of you who posted messages with the old N&B message board.... Hello! I am open for all questions, comments and concerns. I hope to help anyone that asks.

Robert
Nightclub Security Consultants
rsmith@nightclubsecurity.com

[Bart-Man]

Tis I, sir. Good to see your deeds are still afoot. I'll probably be there with this website along with Matirx and David.

Hey, where's my CD you promised??? Did you get my handsome mug on it? Just once in this life I would like for someone to ask me for my autograph!

Not to take from your booth, but anything you can lend us on soundex on this site would be great.

Later, and welcome to the site!

-Bart Gawlikowski

[Club Security]

Ok Bart, here is the info on soundex. I have also attached a link to a great site that explains the whole deal pretty easily.

http://www.ics.uci.edu/~dan/genealogy/Miller/javascrp/soundex.htm

Most of the sites that use soundex are from genealogy and family name searches. As mentioned in my prior post, soundex was originally created for US Census workers to help them manage millions of same and similar names.

Once you learn the system it is pretty easy to use without to much thought... or with a small cheat sheet.

Bart, see me in Vegas and I will FINALLY hook you up with the ID Training CD, all updated and new.


Robert
Nightclub Security Consultants
rsmith@nightclubsecurity.com

[Hooligan]

Ive been doing some reading online and i found these folks, they have some pretty impressive pics of the fake IDs they make, they do holograms UV markings and scanable bar codes. any way here is a link to the site.

and just when i thought i knew what i was doing...

ok i decided i didnt want to advertise for these folks so i removed the link... PM me if you are intrested.

[MiB ATL]

Sorry I been gone so long, will be posting some new fakes soon... Any request for the next state?

~MiB

[David]

How about Hawaii, Montana, Idaho and Minnesota Matrix. Those seem to be the one's that we get in our club. Thanks.

[Hooligan]

Ive been seeing alot of Calis
any info there?

[MiB ATL]

Originally posted by David
How about Hawaii, Montana, Idaho and Minnesota Matrix. Those seem to be the one's that we get in our club. Thanks.

Well I havent seen too many of those myself, I see mostly east coast ID's with the exception of CA. Bart saw a really good Minn. once i know of... I have taken one really bad attempt at an Idaho. I never seen a FAKE Hawaii or Montana yet! :p

So ill move onto CA for now...
~MiB

[MiB ATL]

Well, I been gone a LONG time, but I thought I restart this thread and see if anyone had any questions or inputs?

~MiB

[Bart-Man]

Bart: I removed the post with the web address in it. I left your post so that the point is still made. We don't mind if people post sites that we can use or learn from but not BS sites that are only advertisements.

David



The site is a joke as are the blatant pop-ups that come with it. I have recommended the last post be dropped. If, per chance, you are a dedicated new member to the site, please do not attach links for advertising purposes.

[MiB ATL]

Bart,

PM me your new number, tried to call you!

~MiB

[MiB ATL]

Well, I been gone a again for while, but I thought I if restart this thread and see if anyone had any questions or inputs for 2004?

~MiB

[parkside23]

Now we have all seen fake or alt ID's. I know I have seen my share at the Nightclub were I run security. Thats why I started SecureID. Email if you need more information we've really put an end to fake ID's.

[MiB ATL]

Well no offence Mike, but no one is going to put an end to ID fraud, but you are more than welcome to join the war!

~MiB

[parkside23]

Who cares if you serve an underage person only the cops to keep thier funds up to date. So if you have a great id and my software reads the encoding on the back sweet give me your money. Cause I have your pic with your info when the cops do come in. So you get busted pay the cops and I prove that we carded you and uses the states code to prove it. Fake ID's great just dont hurt my biz.

[MiB ATL]

Who cares? I guess you never seen a 19 year old person with their who life ahead them drink and drive and take a life or yet worse loose their own because they were to immature to deal with drinking and the choices that must come with it when under the influence of a drug. The law exists for a reason and to not try to follow it you are just as guilty of the crime as the person committing it... If you don't care, maybe someday you will if you have to look at mother and fathers face sobbing cuz their son or daughters dead from drinking in your establishment, maybe you will care then? Maybe you do not belong to be on this type of board if you have such lackadaisical attitude towards doing what is right and not just trying to make another dollar...

~MiB

[parkside23]

I thought thats why we were in biz was to make $$$. Yes I have been to 3 funerals of people killed in drinking related accedents. All over 30! and all way over I mean Way OVER .08! All I am saying is that fake ID's will always be used. It is a good biz idea to defend your biz at all costs and not allow people with fake ID's to shut you down. SECUREID stops ALL fakes but if you have your sisters or brothers the code reads and your providing false ID. But, the biz is defended.
By the way I have been marketing this system for some time and people either buy it or they say, hey all my biz comes from underagers! I try and get city leaders to pass laws forcing biz to have system as a deturnet and they laugh and smile and ask," do you know how much revinue that is"!!!!!!!!! So I have done my home work and know how the real world works. Seen friends die. AND I ACTUALLY CAME UP WITH A DECENT SOLUTION!!!

[steffen]

Originally posted by parkside23
Seen friends die. AND I ACTUALLY CAME UP WITH A DECENT SOLUTION!!!


Too bad the DRAM shop law in Missouri doesn't care if you carded them at the door... If you let in a minor in the state of Missouri, and they were drinking, you can still be held responsible. That is why you may have pissed off MIB... We are here to make money, smartly and legally. Forcing your product down people's throat, hell any "ID-ing" software in peoples faces will NEVER NEVER NEVER out do having a human being actually look at it. It may cover your rear in some states, but in other states, it doesn't matter...

All you got to do, is do your job. Do your job, check the ID's, have fun at work, and reap in the benefits. If you're caught playing the game w/ minors in your establishment... better plan on paying the fines, and losing your license.

*plink* *plink* We'll just add that right there...

--Steffen

[MiB ATL]

Well I do not know what this SECURE ID thing is, but there is not ONE ID scanner or code reader on the market is worth even one nights cover charge... Here we go with scanners again wait till Bart chimes up Steffen... Only about 20 some ID will even scan into any scanner. If your working with states with old style ID's like NJ, AK they are even more worthless than normal...

~MiB

[parkside23]

Guys I know all about DRAM refurse to any intoxicated person. Im talking about getting shut down becuse there are minors in your biz or even getting hundreds if not thousneds of dollers in tickets. like what happened to about 5000 bars/ nightclubs in the US last year. 43 states have DRAM and its very hard to prove in cort. If your in a large city 100k or more or a college town your at hudge disk becuse cities are really starting to og after bars for underages. Now MADD wants these types of machines in all bars over 75cap. in wi and il.

[parkside23]

mib Atl if your don't kow what something is why dont you just ask. If you only tey and understand something new by what you have seen in the past im sorry. how do you comment on something when you admit you don't know what it is?!

SecureID reads 35 states. You can manual add all the others. ANd your liablity for underage patrons falls. We came up with this becuse we bought every other scanner on the market and your right they all sucked. This si totally new stuff. Buy the way NJ just switched.

[MiB ATL]

Originally posted by parkside23
Buy the way NJ just switched.

ABOUT TIME WHOOO HOO!! LOL
Only be about 2 months before those fakes hit the street...

~MiB

[MiB ATL]

Originally posted by parkside23
mib Atl if your don't kow what something is why dont you just ask. SecureID reads 35 states. You can manual add all the others. .

Well i am not sure how you ADD a state that cant be scanned in ANY way, but its nice to dream, so how do we see this machine of the future? LOL

Im sorry burst your bubble no box will ever replace someone who knows the game, you can have a real ID and fool ANY machine, I can get ANY kid no matter how well he has looked at his brothers ID. Most I can get in 5 or less questions, they will studder... Your box wont make them studder and swallow hard bro...

~MiB

[parkside23]

Send me an email and I will send you our inforamtion that will in detail explain how SecureID works. You can manual add states that don't work its very simple. And if you have a photo of the person and the inforamtion they used to enter your bar.
Its called good will and you wont get an underage violation, but they will get a false ID charge. It protects you and your biz. Human error at the door is sickening!
Specially when they're 19 5'10" and blond.

[bubba427]

Love the info posted on this thread...is it still active? No recent postings in the past couple years, but very good info, still.

[MiB ATL]

Well thank you, I am still around and can answer any new questions that you may have. This info is years of experiance from many members!

~MiB

[wrd72]

How many Alaska I.D.'s have you seen? Seems to be the biggest problem for us in Oregon. Some look really good, some not so good.

[Club Security]

Hello Everyone,

The older plastic sealed Alaska ID's are just like any other state that uses the paper sealed in plastic - terrible. However, the new ones that started being issued about 18 months ago aren't real bad. They have microprinting along the top and bottom and have UV or black light printing along the right and left sides. They also incorporate a hologram photo.

The real problem that several clubs have seen from Alaska is that minors are easily going to the DMV offices with someone elses birth certificate and getting a real ID with someone elses info. The DMV offices aren't real active in stopping this. Notice the ID that I am adding to this post. Alaska ID with a San Diego address and a birthdate that makes the person 15 when they are obviously way over 15.

Good Luck and Be Safe,

Robert
www.handsalliance.com

[MiB ATL]

How many Alaska I.D.'s have you seen? Seems to be the biggest problem for us in Oregon. Some look really good, some not so good.

East coast went through same problems with the NJ ID's till they finally went to the new ones... AK has a new one out that should fix most those problems soon. Still will have to deal with ID fraud of someone elses ID or altered...

~MiB

[MiB ATL]

They have microprinting along the top and bottom and have UV or black light printing along the right and left sides. They also incorporate a hologram photo.

The real problem that several clubs have seen from Alaska is that minors are easily going to the DMV offices with someone elses birth certificate and getting a real ID with someone elses info. The DMV offices aren't real active in stopping this. Notice the ID that I am adding to this post. Alaska ID with a San Diego address and a birthday that makes the person 15 when they are obviously way over 15. Good Luck and Be Safe, Robert


Again the Birth Cert fraud was a HUGE issue in the state NJ for few years!!! That ID is disturbing on many levels but some of that could be explained, but is really only speculation on my part. As far "hologram photo" there is no such thing, AK ID do in fact have "holograms" but are only State Name and State Flag.

I think you are referring to the mini "Ghost Photo" on lower left, these have been used for years in MANY states, but are easily faked with a good computer. UV holograms or text is the best deterrent out there currently.

As far as the address, the guy could be military (by looking at the picture I say a BIG maybe) and he is maintaining a "Home of Record ID" completely LEGAL, some states will put your current out of state address on them.
WA state did this for me once, they no longer offer this, now your "Home of Record" address must be used, but they will mail it to a out of state address.

The signature really bothers me too, it does not even appear to have "Robert" in it?? And why is there no last name? Or was omitted for your scan?

As far as the birthday... hmmmm it looks like this ID was a type o possibly and made its way out on the street. I would have to see the real one to see if it had been altered or was complete fake but appears real on screen. If this indeed was real and had not been altered I would have contacted the AK State Patrol to follow up with their DMV asking who had issued the ID??? This is one the weirdest I have seen in long time. Good for training but not your typical fake ID by any means...

Now I see your name is Robert also, AND you live in San Diego as well, sooooo maybe this was also just a BIG test for us? DMV misprint and gave it to you after a big laugh for your junk drawer? Or do I need to call Grissom and Brss in Las Vegas.... =)

~MiB

[David]

Wow, he's back!

Thanks buddy.

[MiB ATL]

Hello Everyone,

The older plastic sealed Alaska ID's are just like any other state that uses the paper sealed in plastic - terrible. However, the new ones that started being issued about 18 months ago aren't real bad. They have microprinting along the top and bottom and have UV or black light printing along the right and left sides. They also incorporate a hologram photo.

The real problem that several clubs have seen from Alaska is that minors are easily going to the DMV offices with someone elses birth certificate and getting a real ID with someone elses info. The DMV offices aren't real active in stopping this. Notice the ID that I am adding to this post. Alaska ID with a San Diego address and a birthdate that makes the person 15 when they are obviously way over 15.

Good Luck and Be Safe,

Robert
www.handsalliance.com

He never did answer me... =)

[macaws49]

where do you get the ID book?

[Oxrock]

where do you get the ID book?

Your First Line of Defense Against ID Fraud! (http://www.driverslicenseguide.com/)

Not too expense and we use it.

[David]

Ask your beers guys. Bud and Miller both have them and they are free.

[lgshort]

I work at a club in Alliance, OH and recently we've started having trouble with Indiana's. I've never seen a fake Indiana before now so I think one person is making them. Could you guys give me a little more info on IN id?

Thanks

[David]

This is an old thread. I hope that there is someone like Bart or Robert or MIB still on the site to address your question.

I haven't heard anything on a national scale. Your situation may only be as you suggest.

[dob433]

I'm a bartender and bouncer. The most recent Indiana IDs look Ok. The font is off just a hair, the picture is slightly smaller and the holograms are the same as the real ones only more of them and not smooth at all. I call them being pixilated (not sure if its a real word). I accidentally laughed out loud in front of the kid when he handed me the ID. I have not seen a fake of the new Indiana

[TreoScope]

The Bush administration was aiming to introduce tough national standards (called Real ID) for driver's licenses, but has backed off because of criticism from state officials. see Wash Post article http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/03/AR2007110300890.html

Your best defense against fake IDs is well-trained staff. To assist them, an ID scanner can help because it reads the information from the barcode or magstripe which is difficult to forge. See www.treoscope.com

Good luck.

[rootsreality]

Regarding the ID Book........

Check with your beer distributors for this book. We got ours from the Bud distributor. We had to request it from the distributor a few times but they finally came through with it. They don't publish the book but there was a little blurb on it stating that the book was provided by A-B. It gives samples of the IDs from all US states and territories as well as Canada's provinces, with details on what to look for to verify.

[teenclub]

greatest ID thread

[garyborlot45]

There are a lot of ID's coming from the UK these days.. This website has lots of info about them: http://www.theidcentre.com (http://www.theidcentre.com/)

[orlandoflnight]

Thanks Matrix for the great post. Keep them coming.

I have one question for you and Bart. Is it true that all DMV's use the blue background behind the photo? I was told this a while back by a friend. Just after he told me this, I had someone present a DL with a white background. I confiscated the DL and now have it in my collection.

I was shocked that you brought this up. I have a FL state ID card that has a white bg. i have nver noticed until u said something. I wish I could find it to scan. but it's the real deal. Infact it may even be transparent b/c the PVC is the white part.... Anyone one else have one? I know the DL is always blue, so maybe it has something to do with the year... Oh and the hologram of FL is no longer visable, at all. And its my real ID.