Bar with property

[plowery_lounge]

So I'm looking at a bar with property for sale. The lot is a little over a half acre and the bar is about 1300 sq ft. It's in a college town (about 25k student body) in the midwest, population a little bit over 100k, on the business loop of the main interstate through town near an exit ramp, so the traffic location seems decent, plus it has a lot of parking. I haven't seen the actual property yet, just some pics. My brother lives there and knows I'm interested in a bar with property, so he's been doing some scouting for me. I'm planning a trip to the area in a few months so I'll be checking some things then of course if it's still on the market. It is currently operating, but I have no idea what work would need to be done if it changed ownership just for code etc. The asking price is in the mid $300k's. Obviously, I have no idea about the books from the current owners, but those will be looked at before anything moves that will cost me money. I've asked the realtor if the license is included with the property, and they didn't seem to know or care. My brother thinks the parking lot would have to be asphalted as it's currently gravel, which he says is most likely grandfathered in. He also says the bar istelf "could probably use a fair amount of work", but he's not a building inspector. The fact it includes property is of course a big draw for me.

He's very familiar with the area, went to college there as well as tended bar in his college days, and has been there probably over 20 yrs now. He currently works for the city and is familiar with outdoor zoning issues etc. It has an outdoor/patio kind of area which isn't currently being used. I also have some good connections for building inspections and commercial real estate value in the area, so I'll be checking with them of course before I decide anything.

I would like to rebrand it. It's currently a 'Nascar' bar, as my brother puts it. Nothing against Nascar, but I'd like to turn it into a college crowd/dive bar type establishment, as those are they kind of bars I like. And if you don't do something you like, where's the point in that, no ? It's about a mile or so from the main college bar area, but there are some venues in the area that are doing ok from a cursory look, not necessarily college crowd though. It's close to another smaller college in the town, and near an apt/residential area that caters somewhat to students in both schools. My brother has commented on some of the things bars do to get the college kids. A few run shuttle buses to the college games and clean up, and he thinks this would be a great bar for that, given the location and large parking lot. I'd also hit up the college newspapers and radio stations of course.

Having family in the area is a big plus for me, as I certainly can't afford a bar with property where I live now, in California. So maybe back to my roots in the midwest. I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts about the above, either pro or con. I know the info is kind of spotty but you guys have a good eye for the biz. I was particularly wondering about the problems I might have rebranding it. Mainly, getting the old guys out kinda, and the college crowd in. A bit about myself, I'm mid-40's, and have some experience in the services/bar industry. One of my first jobs years ago was a short order cook, so I'm used to rushes. I spent a long time in computers, did a few years installing solar (yeah...I want a solar powered bar, grin) so I have some experience doing construction, and I'm tending bar for real now, my first time doing that to get my feet wet. Moved up from bar back/door work to doubling with some experienced bartenders during wkend nights.

Any comments appreciated!
Thanks,
Plowery

[imindless]

You said it was not in the main bar area of that town for the college kids. That would be my first concern. I am not saying that the bar you want to buy would not succeed because its not in the same general area as the others, it just might be harder to get the college kids to come out your way instead of just going to the same old bars every night.

The college newspaper and college radio would be a good start to advertising as long as they allow a bar to do so. Other ways you might be able to advertise is if you had a live performer from the college come out or a live band from the college come out and do a performance once every week or something, to just be a bit different.

Why do college kids go to the same ol' bars?
1. Cheap alcohol
2. All the other cool college kids are there.
3. the atmosphere
4. generous on the alcohol

One way you might be able to draw them to your bar would be doing something with the fraternities and the sororities (if they have them). Pick the biggest of each and then you could promote that a certain night would be ___ abd another night would be ____, for both of them, themed but based on what F&S they are with and they get discounts all night with a student or some proof they are with the ForS your theming the night after. Keep track of what events are going on at the school, as in is it football season, or any other sport, is it testing week, is it _____. This will help you to determine what needs to be done to keep your crowd and bring more people in depending on the season and you can base your promotions off what it. Is it the end of school, the beginning of school, spring break, christmas break, turkey day, etc? Major holidays and events are what you need to capitalize on when they come around... What drinks are "the thing" that is going around your college town or going around other college towns as a 'fad'? As in drinks. So for example, fish bowls are big now in my area so all of the clubs, bars, lounges are beginning to take on that as a new drink and using it as a promotions tool.

As for the buidling. If it looks rundown from the outside, thats really not a good thing because it will need cosmetic work on the outside even before you get to the inside. Will the floors need to be redone (wood, stained concrete, tile)? Then how good is the bar and all the equipment in there working? Do the lines get cleaned out? How often? Is the equipment paid for or leased? Do the walls need a new paint job? How are the table and chairs in the place? Do they need to be replaced?

I would go on and on but that should give you a good start of how much work/how much it might cost you AFTER you actually buy the place and the business.


I saw a nice bar near me which is around $300K and for Dallas on one of the main streets in dtown, thats amazing. But I think its just for the business and not the building.

[plowery_lounge]

mindless, thanks for the reply and suggestions, good and true all around.

Yeah, my brother says getting the college crowd out there would take some work, as it's not on their usual beaten path. Another venue "down the street" does decent college and locals business. It's part of a little 'complex' of 2 or 3 places, one being a topless bar, probably no booze sales there, so they feed off each other patron wise. But he says they also do a lot of remotes and promotions, and heavily advertise on the local radio. The town is definitely big into the main college sports, football and basketball, and of course I would tap into the "go local sports team!" feel and get some shuttle buses, which help other venues keep the fans happy and onsite part of gameday. I've thought about the greek angle, I think I have a contact or two who were in frat's, so they're on the list of ways to get more frat boys and sorority girls in the doors, but probably seeing if the greek association or whoever is open to being approached. I could imagine they have enough problems associated with booze that they might not, but doesn't hurt to ask. I'd much prefer a place that is known for good priced drinks and good times than being upscale and velvet ropes. And of course mixing up the specials to match the school year "finals shot prices" "pledge my bar" tshirts during rush week etc. is a great idea. I know it would be a seasonal crowd as well, so I'd kind of like to keep some of the locals happy for the summer slow period. It does have an unused outside area that could probably be a selling point for most the year since there's no smoking inside these days.

The condition of the building is probably the biggest question mark for me, but if it's still on the market when I go out to meet a new niece who's on her way, it's definitely going to get more than a once over to see if I want to start some real maneuvers and inspections.

Getting something with the property is a big attraction for me. This location and size has got to be at least good for a store or something, being next to the highway and exit ramp. I'm pretty sure that's how the real estate agent is looking at it anyway, but I want a bar, not a gas station =)

Thanks again!

[dragon35212]

Ok the idea of owning your own bar sounds great.......There are two things two remember that will mean the difference between making it or not. If you are doing it for the big money chances are you will fail sorry. If you are doing it because you love to serve and be with customers and make a difference then go for it and you will make money. Location location location people say is everything. It's not, not if you love what you do. It will though make a difference as to how soon you break even and start to make a profit. I have managed / owned Pubs and bars in three different countries. All of them hands on. Yes it is tough, Fun, draining, sleepless nights, for lots of different reasons. Some not so good , some GREAT !!!. If any one is going to become an owner of a Pub, Bar, Restaurant you have to be will to stay in it through the good , bad and the ugly.

Thats my twooo cents worth

www.LionandDragon.ca

[imindless]

I do agree with all that stated. As long as you are on top of your promotions and are able to get people in the door you will be good.

Most big companies, or bars/lounges/nightclubs, or any business for that matter, in a recession, the first thing they cut is marketing and PR. In my opinion it is the wrong thing to do, take funds from other areas of the business and put it in full force to advertise the hell out of your place because if everyone is cutting down on advertising, you will be the one who has the upper hand.

I always found it odd but knowing people who worked for companies and corporations and got fired being on the Public Relations team when the recession hit. Its the first thing to go. So instead of limiting it, maximize it.

Owning the property is always nice yeah but I am sure you would be able to due well if you didn't. Less of a start up investment. You could have a 3-5 year lease with a chance to buy.

[TheAuteur]

This is my first time chiming in, but as I'm about to open my own bar soon and I was in the greek system in college I'd like to offer some help.

First, what you've told us:
You say the bar is 1300 sq ft on a half acre (21,780 sq ft)
You mention it probably needs some gravel to be paved
Under-used outdoor patio
Asking mid $ 300,000s

Buying the land with the bar is great if you can afford it, especially if the lot is large and has room for expansion. Where I live you could barely afford a condo for that price. With such a large lot I would really recommend creating additional retail space for tenants to supplement your income. That income could go towards your mortgage and act as a hedge against your risk. However, I would also examine local retail space vacancy levels before committing to this.

I was in a fraternity in college and if there's one thing I learned, it's that greeks drink more than any other college student. However, this also means they have to afford those drinks. The most common way we avoided paying for lots of drinks at a bar was to pre-party with cheap booze before even leaving the house. This goes for sorority girls too. The greek system is also regulated by universities and a self governing board (IFC or Pan-Hellenic). They will not want to be associated with a bar publicly, especially since most people have such a skewed view of fraternity/sorority members already. They have to be very careful with their images. Greeks also tend towards a gang-like mentality, meaning Sig Eps didn't like Pi Kapps and AZD didn't like DDD. When mixed with alcohol this is un-wanted drama, trust me. Greeks are also great organizers, meaning they know enough people to throw their own parties, effectively cutting out the bar scene for cheaper house parties. In college I only went out to bars with non-greek college students.

College students are heavy drinkers, but also cheap. That means your prices would have to reflect that and your goal would then be volume.

College Nights are a great draw. One local bar/restaurant charges a $5 cover (free with a college ID) with $1 Bud Lights, $2 Heinekens and $20 AMF buckets. They offer live entertainment (it's a dueling-piano bar) and are at always at capacity on this night. (Thursday, the "College Friday") I think the cowboy style, or dueling piano bar concept are great themes for enticing college students. A local cowboy themed bar uses the outdoor (covered) patio for a mechanical bull with great results.

This is the best time to open a business from a cost perspective, you just need to be passionate about it. During a recession the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, the only people truly affected are the middle class. Go for it!:cool:

[plowery_lounge]

Thanks for your reply and thoughts Auteur.

As far as the property, I don't think I have the capital to develop it for commercial use. I was planning on possibly using some of the space for maybe an upscale, small pre-fab residence for myself, to get some personal financial benefit out of the lot. It is zoned for mixed use, but my brother works with some zoning related issues in the area and he said that might be a hard sell to the city. So we'll see what happens if I get the property.

I'm not surprised the greek system tends to shy away officially from bars. I'm sure they have enough booze related image problems. But making connections with the guys and girls in the system is always a good way to make them feel they have an unofficial, but friendly, relationship with an establishment.

I definitely understand college kids having to drink on a budget, so any drink specials would be geared in that direction. Heck, most people like to drink cheap, which can be a good draw if it's a fun, relaxing place. The mechanical bull thought is a good use of the space, though it's currently not covered. It is in a rural state, but I'm not sure if the cowboy theme would bring them in. I grew up in the same state, and the pickup truck cowboy crowd was pretty small then, but it's worth looking into. I think the outside area used to be a beach volleyball court thats unused now, so maybe something beach/tiki themed in the outside area, with outdoor heaters or maybe a firepit for those cold autumn night smokers of course. Though the current bar does have a 'Nascar' feel, I think moving it towards a dive feel (without the dive problems hopefully, of course) might be a good move. With the outside space and it being kind of a blank page of an establishment, there's room for defining a feel for it.

Thanks again for the input, and the encouraging words!