Where to find marketing info for non-smoking bar

[RPalmer]

Hi all, I'm interested in possibly opening a non-smoking nightclub in my town (about 160,000 people). I have ideas for the type of nightclub I want, target demographic, etc. What I don't know is where to look to get marketing information, for example,
- percentage of people in the area that go to bars
- percentage that don't smoke

I'm also looking for any case studies on bars that have gone non-smoking or opened non-smoking from the start (the latter is probably more appropriate).

My background is engineering, marketing and market research is new to me. However, I want to do it right, because I want to get investors and need to create a good business plan.

Robert

[VB_GEX]

Are you wanting to open a non-smoking bar because it is law? Beacuse if it isn't, then I don't see 'drinkers' going to a bar that they can't smoke in.

[Andrew]

Have you considered contacting an anti-smoking lobby/council? They may have statistics and the resources to provide demographics and support. They may even be able to help with some marketing..

Just a thought...

[RPalmer]

No, non-smoking isn't due to legislation. Purely based on perceived market niche opportunity. I dance quite a bit - two-step, swing, etc. Most of the people I talk with don't smoke and would relish the opportunity to go to a non-smoking bar. They all dance, and the only places are dance halls, which are non-smoking, no alcohol, or local clubs, which are both. They do choose the club over the dance hall, so they drink, but don't smoke.

Two places have opened non-smoking bars, but both are attached to a restaurant. I could probably glean at least some information from those owners.

However, my statistical sample is VERY small - certainly not enough to keep a bar open.

[Kansas City]

I'm in a city that allows smoking. 3 months ago I opened a brand new 9,000 + sq ft dance club. I did written survey to potential customers adn then decided that I woudl try a non-smoking club. Litteraly 98% of customers have told me it's great, even teh smokers like it becasue they can go home to bed wothout having to take a shower. I shoudl mention however, they I do have a semi open patio that smokers can lite up on, and as soon as the weather breaks I have an open air roof tp that smokers can use. But, aftet 3 very busy months teh carpet still looks new, no smoke film on lights, walls, or windows. No burn marks in counter tops. No messy ash trays to clean up after. I love it. It was oen of the best decisiosn I made.

[RPalmer]

The cleanliness thing is another HUGE benefit in my book - everything will last longer which means I won't spend as much money on replacement or cleaning. Also, did you get any break on your health insurance because of the non-smoking environment? (or would it have had to be completely non-smoking)?

[Kansas City]

If you mean a break on employee health insurance.. I do not offer it as of this moment.

[poochkas]

I hope this doesn't come off as too blunt, but that may be one of the worst ideas I have heard. I have heard of horror stories of nightclubs in tempe, arizona that used to do 60k a week that virtually had to shut down over night, because tempe went non smoking and customers decided to go to the neighboring town of scottsdale to do their partying. While this may be an extreme example, I think it is a good one. I would speculate that approx. 60-70% of people that frequent bars/nightclubs are smokers. Why would you want to alienate such a large part of your customer base? Sure you want to get into a market that perhaps no one else has ventured into, but ultimately you must understand that most people are followers and they will follow the masses....And they will lead them to a place they can have a smoke!

[wygk]

I think you're taking the right approach by researching this... and Andrew's suggetsion is a good place to start.

Catering to a special audience (non-smokers) can work out very well, if that audience is big enough. Whether or not you can make this work is probably a very regional thing.

Poochkas says that in his area, 60-70% of the bar patrons smoke. Here in the SF Bay area, I'd say that at least 3/4 of the people don't smoke, and wouldn't go into a place that had smoking (of course, we have anti-smoking laws here, so the question doesn't come up).

I also think that KC's point is a good one: if there's a convenient outside area where people can go to smoke, you'll still pull some of the smokers in with their non-smoking friends.

Good luck - it would be interesting if you could post what you find out.

[The Event Guy]

I hope this doesn't come off as too blunt, but that may be one of the worst ideas I have heard. I have heard of horror stories of nightclubs in tempe, arizona that used to do 60k a week that virtually had to shut down over night, because tempe went non smoking and customers decided to go to the neighboring town of scottsdale to do their partying. While this may be an extreme example, I think it is a good one. I would speculate that approx. 60-70% of people that frequent bars/nightclubs are smokers. Why would you want to alienate such a large part of your customer base? Sure you want to get into a market that perhaps no one else has ventured into, but ultimately you must understand that most people are followers and they will follow the masses....And they will lead them to a place they can have a smoke!

You're speculating, as you stated above... of course most people that frequent bars smoke. However, it is possible that the audience he is targeting do no smoke and would go to this establishment because there is no smoking in the venue. His business might actually increase ...maybe not, but it's definitely something that needs to be researched in detail.

Also, non-smoking IS due to legislation in some states. RI just went to non-smoking and business owners were up in arms about it. However, the reality is that people don't like change because it becomes inconvenient for them. But when the have no choice they will either smoke outside or not go out. The reality is that people will go outside to smoke because generally people go out to socialize and drink...not to smoke.

Sure, if smokers have a choice as to going to an establishment that allows smoking inside, then yes, most likely that's where they'll go. On the flip side, non-smokers will generally enjoy attending places that are non-smoking establishments.

[ministry]

massachusetts went non smoking last july and although i don't agree with it it has not hurt business ( because it is state wide and ct. also can't smoke). if you think that you can make a go of it being no smokin then go for it, you can always change later.mike

[MultivenueRus]

Hi Rpalmer...Just a couple things...

When you do your business plan where are you generating the idea that your venue, non-smoking or not would be a success.

Are you basing it strictly on your marketing idea and two-stepping weekends?

Who is on your team for management, what is your experience with running successful businesses in the past...

You are a marketing professional, why don't you get out in the mix of things and do your own research instead of rely on "stats" compiled by people you don't know?

I may be reading and assuming alot but for my corporation to invest in an idea such as yours you should have a few more bullets in your weapon to fire and convince me you are the man to put forward the idea...

Yes, your idea of a non-smoking venue may work but what else is drawing your clientele? What promotions are you up against...What type of aggressive or non aggressive drink pricing do you have in your area...What target market are you after...What is your plan to defeat the competition? What is your strenghts and weaknesses and your competitors...

It's one thing to say "gee let's open a dance club" it's another to open "The Dance Club"

The comments about longevity of the non smoking environment just made me chuckle...so many tree huggers...You are supplying a drug for god sakes to the masses, quit playing the savior when you are killing liver's and destroying brain cells, lol...Put that in the "Health Insurance Program" angle....

Good luck...Get some expereinced people on your team....FAST