18 and Over Clubs

[David]

There is a new 18 and over club in our market. It is the only 18 and over club at this moment. I decided to check them out Saturday night and I was suprised how many people they had in the club. The way that they differentiate the of age people is with a wrist band. Even though they feel that this works, I can tell you that it doesn't. I saw at least ten to twelve underage people with an alcoholic beverage in their hand. When I asked the Manager about this he said "We are doing everything that we can to keep them from drinking. IF one of their friends buys them a drink, they will drink it. I don't have enough people to monitor this right now".

How do the other markets do this type of promo? The ratio of under 21 to the ones that were over 21 was about 75% under and 25% over.

[Scott]

My guess is they don't try to enforce it very hard. (At least the 3 markets I've seen clubs that had 18/21 nights didn't). One of the spring break clubs I recall going to worked it backwards from common sense. The under 21 crowd got a wristband, the 21 and up got some balck light sensitive stamp on the hand. Needless to say, most wristbands were on the floor within minuets.

Given the split (the difference between ammount they charged the over 21 and that which they charged the 21) was only 2 bucks (12 vs 10) I imagine that was done on purpose. The average drinker HAS to be worth more than 2 bucks over a non-drinker.

The other two states where I've seen this done, used the standard wristband deal, and cover usually was 10 bucks for the unders and 3 or 5 for the over crowd.

Most places I have been to have been about 75/25 as you have witnessed. Some clubs will be 21 and up on the weekends, and use the 18-up to create a weeknight full of college kids. Any club like that I have seen like that is actually moving MORE booze on those nights than they are on the weekends.

That should tell you how often the policies are getting enforced. If you do it, and plan on enforcing the wristband rule zealously make sure you're selling bottled water, and jack up the price on soda/juice so you're making money of the youngsters.

[David]

Thanks Scott:

I would never do this type of promo. The risks are too great. I'm sure that they are making a fair amount of money now, but it won't last. I found out last night that the Minor Alcohol Inforcement Agency is taking a serious look at how they do business. They will probably be cited and shut down. This was a last ditch effort to stay in business.

[steffen]

What you could do... If you wantetion to work...

Make it like a Beer Garden at a concert. You got to show ID to get into the area where the liquor is. You can't take Liquor out. No minors are present drinking the clubs liquor, making them (hopefully) safe.

Washington State (as I'm sure many others) require tht liquor and minors are kept completely seperate.

Cheers!

[David]

That's a good idea. The only problem is that this is a large two story club. They have bars on each floor. They don't seem to care if they are underage and it would be very hard to police.

Update: Since my original post, another club in my market has decided to do the 18 and over concept. A few of us from our club visited this club on Friday night. The same thing is happening here also. Their Doormen are doing a terrible job of checking ID's. I saw and escorted out two of my daughters friends. They are 15 years old.

Back to the club that I talked about in my first post. This past weekend might be their last. They had a fight that broke out between two groups of underage people. The Doormen tossed them out along with all of the others that were involved. The first group took off and headed towards the downtown area. The other party involved started to chase them. The first group missed a turn and wrapped their vehicle around a light pole. There were five people in the vehicle. Two are in critical condition, one is in stable condition and the other two are in a coma. They all tested positive for alcohol in their blood stream. The victims said that they were at this club drinking. They also said that they were openly served by the bar staff, even though they didn't have a 21 and Over wrist band. The City Attorney, the Chief of Police and the parents of these kids are going after the club.

I feel that as Owners, Operators and Employees of liquor serving establishments, we need to do what ever it takes to keep the drinking age and the club cliential 21 and over. Sure this kind of thing could have still happened, but I feel that that chances are less with the older more mature crowd.

[GoldStandard]

I have a hookah Bar and we are 18+, we do serve beer and wine. We have two different color bands that we give out at the door, one for minors one for 21+. It seems to work pretty well, for the most part. People still pass drinks around but we catch 95% of them.

[DiabloRoker]

Can someone lead me into the right direction. I'm planning on opening up an 18+ club and I want to have serve alcohol for my 21+ patrons.

I'm planning on just having beer and wine and eventually upgrade to full liquor but isn't there some kind of rule where I can't have 20 and under in the same 'club' if I'm serving alcohol?

[Warehouse]

Can someone lead me into the right direction. I'm planning on opening up an 18+ club and I want to have serve alcohol for my 21+ patrons.

I'm planning on just having beer and wine and eventually upgrade to full liquor but isn't there some kind of rule where I can't have 20 and under in the same 'club' if I'm serving alcohol?

Diablo,

I may be able to help you answer any questions you may have about opening such a club. I see you are in Orange County,Ca. One of the clubs which I owned for 5 years was in Anaheim......20,000 sq ft..... beer & wine license..... 18 & up. Never had any violations on the L.L. There are ways to control and prevent problems.
PM me with any further questions.

Warehouse

[Franchise]

David-

I've managed several 18&over places (mostly years ago). In my opinion, controlling underage drinking is about a few things:

1) Use different cups for alcoholic and non-alcoholic beverages. Anyone without a wristband, that is caught holding the wrong cup, is removed from the building.

2) Extra security and plain-clothed spotters.

3) Violations always result in removal for the night. Hopefully, the fear of removal will reduce violations.

4) Staff caught serving underage persons are immediately fired. It is way more common with shot girls.

5) Have a few underage promoters and meet with them weekly. Discuss with them the various ways people are cheating the system. When I was 19, a local, Detroit, club used black-light stamps to determine who was 21. A group of us figured out that liquid TIDE (yes, the laundry detergent) also glowed under the black light and we could drink $.99 pitchers all night long!! Try to be proactive and predict ways people will cheat the system; have "ears on the street", through your promoters, to determine how people are cheating the system.

6) Serve bottled beer only and specialty drinks in special glasses - like yard glasses - that are easily distinguishable.

7) Underage cups should always be CLEAR, to help determine if someone has purchased a shot and just added it into the cup. It's more difficult if they are drinking cola, but it helps.

8) Sell bottled water only! Bring a water sponsor on-board, they will be more than happy to support this since you should be selling quite a bit of product.

9) No cups are allowed to enter any bathroom. Station security there!!

I could probably think of more, but that's the basics.

[David]

These are all great controls. The only problem is, the State ABC doesn't see your point of view. Your Liquor License is too valuable to risk the money that you might make.

Also, all of your controls are easily circumvented.

Question.....How many problems did the underage customers cause with the of age customers? And what did you average age end up at?

[alchemybar]

Our liquor laws make this an easy one. No-one under the legal drinking age is allowed on the premises. If they get past security the fine is up to $18k per offence.

[TwistBar]

In Penn, youd be fined. Even though the law allows the mixing, owners here would be stupid to allow minors and legals to drink in the same room.

[bigbeat]

Last year, there were only 2 18+ clubs in my area. Today, there are over a dozen including my club which originally opened as a strict 21+ club.
Even a well known college sports bar that has been around for 20+ years had recently converted to 18+ without any problems and their sales as well as attendance has shot to record numbers.

We don't seem to have any issues with underage drinking, or at least that I am aware of. All of these clubs are mix the crowds but I do know that security is very stiff and there is a lot more security on the floors, hallways, entrances, etc.

In my club and a few other clubs that I have spun at locally, they do have a seperate 21+ area for those who wish to stay away from the "kiddies" so to speak.

I will say this........ Seeing some of these clubs convert to 18+ has really improved their attendance base, door sales & status of the clubs. I was always one to be against the idea of being 18+ but seeing the results changed my mind.

[intensity]

I ran an 18+ club for almost 20 years. All the things Franchise mentions are spot on.

Another policy to consider is to not let shots walk away from the bar. Or have a waitress bring them to the table and have them do the shots right away and take the empty shot glasses. Both of these will prevent shots from being given to minors.

Good luck with your 18+ venture. It can be very successful if done right and you take underage drinking seriously.

[anastaziax]

Unlike nightclubs in our area, we have a "convention center" liquor license, and so are not limited to age 21+.

When our clients rent the facility, we generally allow them decide if they want age 18+ or age 21+. For most events, we get maybe less than 10% that are under 21, but there are a few groups with bigger turnout (400+) that have a bigger under 21 crowd (maybe as high as 30%--but still the majority are age 21+).

We do all the things that Franchise said (different (different color cups, wristbands,etc.) , plus a few more that he did not specifically mention:

--To state the obvious, bar staff is trained and knows that they can always ask for an ID if there is any question about someone's age--they should not just rely on wristband system.

--Not only is someone who is underage and caught drinking escorted out, sometimes they are "banned" for some period of time from coming back. On the few occasions this has happened, the violator was in tears after being lectured by our floor manager about how he or she put our venue and our client at risk, etc etc. And the client/promoter also knows they have to take on some responsibility on this issue or we will not rent to them again.

--We have a no re-entry policy. Not only do we have to be concerned about serving those that are under age 21, or having someone else give them alcohol, we also have to look out for them bring in their own alcohol, or drinking before they arrive, or going out to their car to drink and then coming back in. These are all the things our staff and security staff are trained to constantly be on the lookout for.

Since we also do some teen only events, we have a lot of experience dealing with all of the above issues.

--At least right now, we don't have shot girls, so do not need to worry about that potential problem.

We haven't had any problems so far, and take this issue very seriously of course.

Stacey
Spring4th Center

[Havensloft]

To cater to the 18+ population do you have to have extra insurance? My insurance company askes if we have uner 21 on the promises so that made me wonder if there is an extra expense and insurance needed.