ATTN: To all with NO experience...

[king]

I will appologize in advance if i come off harsh or rude by this BUT...

Why is it that all these people with absolutely no experience in the business come on here and just decide overnight that they want to open up a bar or nightclub? Where do you get the right? Do you think anyone can just open a bar and become successful? Is the hospitality industry for lazy and uneducated people, because thats the way you're coming off? Do you think everyone will just give you all the tools and info. you need over the internet to run your business and become a millionaire? Is it that simple? Why should we spill all our secrets to perfect strangers?


Bottom Line- Owning a restaurant, bar, lounge, nightclub... is not just a fun thing to do or easy way to make fast cash, its a lifestyle- and its not easy! Restaurants go in and out of business EVERY DAY and millions of dollars are lost and it will always be this way.


Many of the people on here (david, eventguy, baudtender, etc.) have been in this business for many years and have dedicated their lives to this industry. They most likely have got their start within the industry and worked their way up the job ladder while gaining valuable experience which they someday used or will use to open their own establishment. I have been in this business for nearly 10 years and I am still learning things day in and day out, new marketing techniques, inventory tools, etc. Many successful owners have business and marketing backgrounds as well as industry experience. How will you compete?

To be honest, it really pisses me off and boggles my mind when people come on here and ask, "what do i need to do to open up a bar", "I have no experience in the bar business but i think i would be good at it.", "Im 17 years old and think it would be cool to own a nightclub, how much does it cost and can you give me some advice?" or "Anyone have a business plan for a bar or nightclub, thanks."

What makes this industry so appealing and why do you think its so easy? For instance, I would never think of starting my own construction company or my own custom motorcycle shop. Why, you ask? Because I have no experience!
But if i was interested in those fields, i would go to college and earn a degree in a related field, aquire an entry level position and act as a sponge, soaking up all the valuable information i possibly could. I wouldn't just think i could go on a messageboard, read some posts and then get ready to take the plunge and risk thousands of dollars.

Please, think things through before you post on this site and show some of the regular users on here some respect for their hard work.

Don't mean to be harsh and I'm not an asshole, just needed to vent. Its been bothering me for quite some time. Sorry for the long post.
-King

[RudeDog]

King,

I agree with much of what you said, however, I have been reading these posts for quite a while now, and I have learned SO much from some of these discussions. While I agree that the high school kids posting that they intend to open a multi-million dollar club is annoying, there is a lot of great info passed down from those with experience to those who have none.

If anything, people who ask these dumb questions are turned off by the replies of bar owners who say "so, are you ready to work 180 hours a week?" etc.

I agree it is a LIFESTYLE. For those who want to open a bar, I think you SHOULD watch the movie ****tail. Pay close attention to the part where the dude commits suicide in his boat 'cause he mismanaged his finances!

King, you really shouldn't let those posts get to you dude. If that crap gets you going, then I would hate to see shit go wrong in your club when you are there! ;)



In closing...Yes, it is tough. No, you can't pull it off if you have to post questions on the internet about how to find money to finance it. Yes, everybody steals from you. No, you really can't trust anyone in this business.
So there, open your club and King and I will buy your shit from your bank at auction next year. Have fun!




RUDEDOG

[The Event Guy]

...but... this is an open forum for the industry so people have the right to ask these questions. You're right, it is annoying when people want a quick fix or the answer that answers all the situations and problems thjat go along this business. The only answer to that is there is no quick fix and that's why we're all here learning from each other.

With that said, I think it's safe to say that if people aren't willing to put in the time and effort to run ANY successful business, please don't ask this forum for a quick fix. Do the research andthen ask intelligent questions that make ALL board members want to contribute some sort of answer - good or not so good.

:)

[king]

OK, first off, my post may have come off more intense than i inititally intended it to be but it was late, i had just gotten home from work, insomnia- that sorta thing. So i do appologize for my post and it seems as though i may have been misunderstood.

Believe me I post on probably about 10 different nightlife forums and have nothing but positive things to say about communicating this way and chatting/sharing information. Heck, i run my own website and moderate my own forum. I am the first one to admit that as far as the industry and the actual business is concerned this is in fact THE BEST forum i have come across, HANDS DOWN. And I am very thankful that i have found it and i too have learned alot by reading the posts and enjoy it.

Rudedog, contrary to what you may have presumed by my post, i am actually extremely laid back, have tons of patience and do not get upset easily. Something must have just hit a nerve with me last night that made me want to get that out.

Anyways, i hope i don't receive any backlash or attitude from the members on the forum, that was not my intention and I have nothing but respect for the people who mod this forum and run this site. Hope this clears up some things... Have a good weekend everyone, cheers...

King

[BarSim]

I do have to agree, that lately there seems to be a sudden swarm of "I don't have a day of industry experience, but I think I can run my own bar" type of posts. If someone is really serious about running their own joint, I think it is nearly an absolute necessity to have at least a sliver of industry experience.

I personally think it's a waste of good advice and a waste of the experts on this board's time to even start asking these questions before they've built a solid foundation based on working in this biz (for the most part anyways). But, in the end, if they can find an idiot willing to throw away a ton of cash to help them get started, that's their business.

[kelmulder]

so we should all just give up on our dreams because we dont have any experience in the business, thanks

[king]

so we should all just give up on our dreams because we dont have any experience in the business, thanks

Obviously, that is def. not what i meant by that! But i will say that there is a big difference between "its always been a dream of mine to open up a bar one day" (which i admire and encourage) as opposed to "im about to open a bar next month..."

I did not write this thread to stir the pot and cause alot of drama. If it's a big deal, the mods can feel free to delete the thread.

[Flynnt Maverick]

First of Hi to everyone. I'm just a lurker and figure what better way to introduce myself than by pissing someone off. :) so

Quote: Why is it that all these people with absolutely no experience in the business come on here and just decide overnight that they want to open up a bar or nightclub? Where do you get the right?

Well, I live in the United States and that basically gives me the right.

Quote:Is the hospitality industry for lazy and uneducated people, because thats the way you're coming off?

After reading some of these posts, I couldn't agree more.

Quote:Why should we spill all our secrets to perfect strangers?

without getting long-winded on this one, If this message board is not meant to answer questions, and thereby give away secrets either don't allow questions, or don't give answers.

I belong to another MB (that has nothing to do with hospitality) and they live by the saying: the only stupid question is the one not asked. If anybody's head is too big for this, well tough shit for everyone; both those who don't know shit, and those who know it all. Nothing will be gained by either party.

Quote: Bottom Line- Owning a restaurant, bar, lounge, nightclub... is not just a fun thing to do or easy way to make fast cash, its a lifestyle- and its not easy! Restaurants go in and out of business EVERY DAY and millions of dollars are lost and it will always be this way.

Well then it seems to me that the best answer to stupid questions is: Work in the industry and learn what the **** its about. If someone is willing to waste all their money and not have a clue, thats not my problem.

The rest of King's post hit the nail on the head.

I have family in this business and as soon as I graduate (I'm a nontraditional student), I will be working at a family owned bar. I've been working for the past 10 months on business and marketing plans (both to take to the SBA and for business classes) and lurk here hoping to gian a little insight, because being a nontraditional student I know there is a world of difference between class experience and real life. I've been busting my ass on this shit. And I want to be able to compare real world with hypathetical class BS. So when I post asking if anyone has the Mythical Financial Spreadsheets, its not because I'm lazy, its because I have a 6 page spreadsheet with projections I want to compare with another sources to see 1.What I've missed 2.How my data compares with other setups.

This thread is harsh but I'll be damned if it aint TRUE.
One other thing I've learned (in just the information collection stage of planning) is that it is stupid to go somewhere and ask for help without having a clue on specifically what you want help on. If you haven't done any homework, then the help offered isn't going to be any good anyways.
So, if I ask stupid questions, well....Don't hesitate to set the record straight. I think I'll post a stupid question.

[Estefon]

Well Said Flynnt and Event Guy. This is an open forum.

Personally, I'd like to see a forum dedicated only to bar and nightclub owners. Verification could be established through your liquor license, Corporate Commission, etc..

HOWEVER, that is not what this forum is about. In the 1 1/2 years I've been posting on this site, I've responded to a plethora of "stupid questions" and been insulted on two occasions by the experts on this forum (i am far from and expert). You can tell pretty early on a post or thread if it is worth reading. Just ignore the peripheral chattter, if you're anoyed. That's what a forum is about. Open communication while hiding behind a keyboard.

[Mozatta]

Hi, I'm 17 years old, just graduated high school and looking to get into the nightclub business. I graduated with a 3.8 gpa from my high school and I am very good at arranging events. All the parties at my house were ran by me. I oversaw the guests, vips, refreshments, music, etc.

Now on to my question. I need about $275,000 to start this club. I have the name and theme down already. Can anyone help me out?

[TOC]

I have 10 years in the service industry and have learned a tremendous amount of info just from reading these boards. Some people are just looking for an easy answer. As far as the kids with no experinece, they will either prosper or fail once they get a taste of really working in the industry. Personally, i am very attracted to the lifestyle and have been living it for 10 years now. I have no problem working hard especially since it will be for me. The next step for me is to get back into college and get a new bar job. My goal is to open my own place by the time I'm 35. That gives me 6 years to get through college and learn as much as i can while working my way thru college. I feel that after 6 more years in the business (hopefully with some management experience under my belt by then) and a bachelors degree in business management/marketing i'll be ready to run my own place. And i'm excited!! :)

[David]

Now that's the kind of chatter that I like to see. Everyone speaking their mind and holding to their convictions. This is a free speech site as long as you respect the rights of the others on the site. When things get out of had and the insults start to fly, we, the Moderators and the Administrators, say bye-bye.

I started in this great business over 40 years ago. Yep, that makes me an old fart. In fact, I'm so old that I fart dust.

When I was eight years old, my father started helping a couple of his friends that owned bars. He would bartend, deliver drinks, stock the coolers and everything else that it takes to operate a bar to its maximum cash generating potential. I followed him everywhere. Even into the ladies bathroom. Asking questions about everything. Dad, why do people throw up when they drink, Why do they get loud and obnoxious, Why do they fight and on and on and on. He was very patient with me. He would let me set behind the bar and serve people coffee and sodas. I think that this is where I honed by boyish charm in order to get tips from the ladies. He taught me the value of each and every customer and their place in the bar. He explained every aspect and every job inside and outside of the building. When I thought that I was becoming a pain in the ass, he would set me down and say "How do you expect to learn anything in life if you don't ask questions"? No matter how dumb you may think the questions is. I caught on fast. I learned how to mix beverages, the differences between spirits and beers. How may people do you know that can explain the differences and qualities of the Vodkas on the back bar? I became his mini-me and I loved it. I couldn't go anywhere in town without someone noticing me. I was somewhat of a celebrity and I was only in grade school.

My point is, when I was young and full of piss and vinegar, I had someone that could help me and explain what I asked for. There wasn't an Internet or even computers that that time. Now, we live in a digital society and information is everywhere. That is why this site exists and is here for EVERYONE. We were like the newbie's on the site at one time in our lives. In fact, when we get those little questions that seem to make everyone mad, I smile. It reminds me of my youth and my Pop.

So go easy on the new people. Someday they will be the moderators and administrators on this site.

[TOC]

Now that's the kind of chatter that I like to see. Everyone speaking their mind and holding to their convictions. This is a free speech site as long as you respect the rights of the others on the site. When things get out of had and the insults start to fly, we, the Moderators and the Administrators, say bye-bye.

I started in this great business over 40 years ago. Yep, that makes me an old fart. In fact, I'm so old that I fart dust.

When I was eight years old, my father started helping a couple of his friends that owned bars. He would bartend, deliver drinks, stock the coolers and everything else that it takes to operate a bar to its maximum cash generating potential. I followed him everywhere. Even into the ladies bathroom. Asking questions about everything. Dad, why do people throw up when they drink, Why do they get loud and obnoxious, Why do they fight and on and on and on. He was very patient with me. He would let me set behind the bar and serve people coffee and sodas. I think that this is where I honed by boyish charm in order to get tips from the ladies. He taught me the value of each and every customer and their place in the bar. He explained every aspect and every job inside and outside of the building. When I thought that I was becoming a pain in the ass, he would set me down and say "How do you expect to learn anything in life if you don't ask questions"? No matter how dumb you may think the questions is. I caught on fast. I learned how to mix beverages, the differences between spirits and beers. How may people do you know that can explain the differences and qualities of the Vodkas on the back bar? I became his mini-me and I loved it. I couldn't go anywhere in town without someone noticing me. I was somewhat of a celebrity and I was only in grade school.

My point is, when I was young and full of piss and vinegar, I had someone that could help me and explain what I asked for. There wasn't an Internet or even computers that that time. Now, we live in a digital society and information is everywhere. That is why this site exists and is here for EVERYONE. We were like the newbie's on the site at one time in our lives. In fact, when we get those little questions that seem to make everyone mad, I smile. It reminds me of my youth and my Pop.

So go easy on the new people. Someday they will be the moderators and administrators on this site.


Thats awesome!! and your words speak true!

[king]

Thats awesome!! and your words speak true!


David,
Great post and its wonderful to here your story and i couldnt agree with you more. Very well said, Cheers man.

[Estefon]

Wow!. I logged on to this forum thinking that it would be loaded with comments from the experts telling the newbies to "stop wasting their time" with stupid questions. I was fully prepared to quit this forum and spend my downtime doing something else (who knows... turn the TV on for a change).

So far, I'm impressed. And let me send some props to the administrators of this site for maintaining the tone and the culture of this forum. Running a forum is very much like running a bar or club. As the owner, you set the tone; you choose your cleintel, and you decide how he/she should behave if they want to be welcome into your establishment. Why should it be any different here? So, thanks to the moderators and administrators for poking their heads in from time to time and keeping everyone in check.

[Jhelm]

I just wanted to say that King, I agree with you. I am in the late stages of opening up my own bar/nightclub. I have been a bartender for a few years, and my partner has been a very successful DJ for almost 15 years now. This is something we have a passion for, and that is why we are getting into the business. I understand how it is frustrating to see a bunch of people who do not know the first thing about bars come on here and ask questions.

However, no matter how many questions you ask, it does not make up for experience. And to be honest, these people with no experience will only help you and I. If they open up a club, and do not know what they are doing, people will realize this and not patronize their establishment. That means that we look like genius' (that is if my club ends up making it).

Bottom line is, if this is not something you absolutely love and you are not wanting to put in the 80 hours plus a week it takes, then you do not need to get into this business. It took me quitting bartending to find a "real" job to make me realize how much I love it. This is absolutely a lifestyle. I have already changed my outlook on so many things, and my life has changed so much as well, and we aren't even open yet. I've traveled the country looking at clubs to see what they are doing right and what they are doing wrong. I cannot go into a bar, nightclub, or restaurant without constantly looking around saying "I like that" or "ouch". So if that is not the mindset you have, go be a lawyer or something. But at the end of the day, I live for this stuff.

But that's my opinion, and I don't even know if I'll be successful.

[ca. club owner]

This was pretty much needed... An I agree with everyone all the way around. I have posted my fair share. Sometimes end up in an arguement. Mainly because this is not a business. Its a way of life... And I have lived it my whole life.. I really don't mind the questions to much about what do I do. I don't know anything.. Haahaa because you have to find that start somewhere.. But maybe the site can start a section just for BRAND NEW people to the business. So that those with advice can leave some there. And those who are new can go there an maybe find there answers. Its the same question asked over an over is what might get people a lil up tight.. But all in all the site is great. I catch a lil advice on here from time to time. An I leave a lil at times. But like the lil suggestion I had said, maybe haveing a section for "new to the business question's" might keep from haveing the same stuff all over the fourm.. Good luck to everyone.


Money Talks In All Languages....

[BeerGod84]

Now, I don't wanna go off on a rant here, but...
Long Time Lurker...First Time Poster, actually signed up to reply to this one...
(To RudeDog) Read the book ****tail. Even better than the movie, with none of the Tom Cruise B.S. (Brian Brown kicked ass though and don't even get me started on Elizabeth Shue...)

Like I said at the top, I've been lurking on this site for a few months now. Reading about AllenJustAllen's trials and tribulations as well as KansasCity's search for the ultimate ambigiously gay/lesbian concept- it's been an inspriational and eye opening experience.

I had never written a business plan before (and may still have not ACTUALLY done so, according to my local bankers). But the info that I have gleaned from this website gave me the basic business knowledge and confidence to move forward with the dream that I've had since I was a bar back (Many year ago). And I want to personally thank all of those that have "gone before" who take the time to answer the good, specific start-up questions that help us wannabees become business owners.

On the days when I've felt beaten down and ready to give up on my concept, I check out this site and am reminded that there are people out there that share the idea that you can make a living out of what you truly love to do and there's evidence that you don't have to be a Chil-egan's or Apple-Tuesday's to make it.

I'm not beatin' on ya, King...I live in and am working on buying a bar and grill in a small town/rural community. The majority of the locals are farmers, ranchers and generally blue collar that think that the bar/restaurant biz is easy work for the "lazy and uneducated". Most everyone thinks the same...until they get into it. Then it tends to weed itself out. To the folks with no experience, that think it's easy money, I say "come on in" with your trist fund $$. We'll be glad to buy your barely used equipement for pennies on the dollar at the auction 8 months from now. The people that love the biz will stay in and prosper. The ones that don't will move on.

Look back on the Forums. Most of the inane questions go unanswered. The other ones are quickly dispatched. The ones that we can ALL learn from are addressed by the east coast, west coast and all areas in between. It's a Pro site to be sure...and the amateurs find their own way out.

Brace yourselves, boys and girls, now that I'm a regestered user, I'm a gonna have a lot of 'stupid' questions myself...like why can't I find financing for a project with 250k in sales in a town of 500? But that's for another forum at another time.
Your Mileage May Vary, Void Where Prohibited by Law,
BeerGod84

[The Event Guy]

Rock on party people! :cool:

[DanDTGB]

I've only been a member of this site for a little while and only posted a couple of times. However, I am a dedicated reader. This post definitely has been interesting. I agree with most of what everyone has said. I started in this business nearly 20 years ago (minus by time serverd during Desert Storm) as a busboy and have worked my way up. I've worked corporate and I've worked "mom and pop". I currently a managing partner of brewery in Knoxville, TN (Downtown Grill & Brewery). I only wanted to post to lend what I have learned over the years.

First, the old quote: How do you make a little money in the restaurant/bar business? Invest a LOT of money.

If your dream is to own a place I strongly recommend getting your feet wet. Try it out somewhere. There's reasons why people that run places seem to know everyone - it's because you're in the building ALWAYS!

Read the reports and studies. Why is it that restaurant / bar business has one of the highest divorce rates, highest suicide rates, and highest alcohol and drug problems amongst owners and managers? It's hard! It is a lifestyle. You have to desire it. You have to love it. If you do and you do it with all of that passion, drive, desire, and hard work you can make it successful. If you don't, then the moment you've started you've started to fail.

Get your feet wet and experience things. Read these posts. Listen to those that have been there before you. Only from all of this can you design a plan that will be truly successful.

This leads me to the last quote: If you fail to plan, then you've planned to fail. So, ask yourself: How can I design a successful plan if I do not have all the tools? Knowledge and Experience are key!

Side note: This site is awesome. In some aspects, we may be the competition for one another. However, in my opinion the success in each of us individually is the success for us all.

That's my 50 cents......which is the cost of a pint. Not the cost to the guest - my cost. If you have no idea what that means.....starting reading some other posts; otherwise, I'll see you at the auction house.

Good luck to all

[Joe]

A great thread for sure. I do want you to notice the category of the post though. It's called "so you want to open a nightclub", created to invite newbies to post the questions that they are afraid to ask. Some of you have hit it right on the head, if you aren't interested in those topics, don't participate. You have to realize this fact, it's the newbies that keep this board growing. In my experience, the average club (business) owner does not believe that they need help and will not seek out this board for ideas and advice. Now really think about this, why isn't this board ridiculously overwhelmed with posts from 1000's of operators? Afterall it is THEE board for the industry promoted by THEE magazine for the industry and they even give us some ad space in the mag. sometimes articles to promo it? Any way, the point is that the newbies are the early adopters of this way of communicating and as they move through the learning curve continue to use this board as a resource and likely promote it to others just like them.

I understand your frustration with newbie questions, but just like anything else, you can never know the answer until you ask.

Thank you all for your input over the years, we enjoy it as users as well as admin.
Joe

[ministry]

king i couldnt agree more with you. ive been around for along time. i own a couple of bars now and never had anything handed to me. i busted my ass for years working my way up from barback to top dog ! i did the research, the permits, the inspections, everything on my own. i am also tired of lazy people who want it all done for them. i am the first one to give good advice ( ive been posting for years) to people who want to work, but i won't tell you where to go for a license. open up a fu$%^&ing phone book ! if they would just read posts here they could find out the info but they are to lazy to do that. i am also very laid back and not much bothers me but lazy peole do !

[kelmulder]

[QUOTE=DanDTGB]Read the reports and studies. Why is it that restaurant / bar business has one of the highest divorce rates, highest suicide rates, and highest alcohol and drug problems amongst owners and managers? It's hard! It is a lifestyle.



Is this true about the highest divorce rate, I don't want to end up in divorce court if I open up my own club, any advise to not end up there

[Aikidoka]

I will appologize in advance if i come off harsh or rude by this BUT...

Why is it that all these people with absolutely no experience in the business come on here and just decide overnight that they want to open up a bar or nightclub? Where do you get the right? Do you think anyone can just open a bar and become successful? Is the hospitality industry for lazy and uneducated people, because thats the way you're coming off? Do you think everyone will just give you all the tools and info. you need over the internet to run your business and become a millionaire? Is it that simple? Why should we spill all our secrets to perfect strangers?

-King

Well, for some of us, it's not that we woke up one day and decided it. It's rather that after much life experience, we've realized that perhaps we've found something we've always wanted to do.

And now for a little wake up call for YOU Mr. King. I've so far gone into 4 careers with no prior knowledge and been quite successful in them.

There's no mystery to the whole thing and I find your "Don't look behind the curtain at the mysterious wizard" stance amusing.

It's not rocket science to open either a bar or restaurant. I know people with double-digit IQs that have been successful with them, so I know it can somehow be done, no?

Now, does it take hard work? Proper planning? Sound finances? You bet. But perhaps that's what people are here to guage; whether they are finally ready to dive off that diving board.

aiki

[Visual Magic]

Holy Smokes...
Leave town for a while and all hell breaks loose.
This has definitely been one interesting read and I'm going to have to read it all again tomorrow. Kids wanting their own bars. Priceless. If they only knew.
But I will add this to what everyone else has already said. It really is a lifestyle. An all consuming life-sucking lifestyle. I wouldn't even try to do it myself.
I don't really have a dog in this hunt because I just make bars look good and then I leave. I don't have to actually run one. I thought I might want to own one some 25 years ago but from what I've seen so far it probably would have killed me. The day-to-day order of business in this industry would drive me stark-raving mad. Kids go out to clubs and think "Gee-whiz this is great. I've got to get me one of these"
Think again. Just because you own the club doesn't mean you get to party in it all the time. The only long-term successful club owners I know are totally consumed by it. Some of them work 16 hour days and don't do much of anything else. A very select few are so stinking rich that they can pay others to run their clubs and they have no idea how much of it just gets flat stolen right under their noses.
The days of Studio 54 are gone. It's cut-throat, dog-eat-dog market now. I know about all there is to know about a running a club and I wouldn't do it if you paid me. I can't imagine a dollar amount I would take to drive me that nuts.

[ontheway]

I can not believe this is the first time i have seem this topic since it has been up for this long. I read each post starting with King and i agreed on just about everything, but also thought we were going into a battle with everyone new. I was pleasantly surprised with the results here.

On to business. Whenever someone approaches me and says they are thinking of opening a bar or nightclub i immediately tell them not to do it! I say this with a smile and a laugh. I tell them there is a lot more than the glamour tha they see. Even though you can tell them this noody wants to hear that and they will make there own decsion. They ask well why are you doing it and why not sell. I ask myself that all of the time, but the truth is that i love what i do. It definietly is not for everyone though. I read an earlier comment about the divorce and suicide and i can see the truth in that daily. I have friends going through divorces right now over their work. Myself, i am not married, but the girlfriend really loves what i do and the fact that i work all of the time. sarcasm.

To anyone new, go work in the indusrty. That is the bottom line. I worked in the business in every aspect for 6 years before i opened my first place. I am glad i did because you learn not only the daily operational issues, but you also learn ways that your future employees may steal from you. Not saying i ever tried them :) Just get out there and do it then come here and ask for help. List your experience as well and you may see some better responses.

After your time learning and you think it is still for you, wait some more and learn more. This industry has the highest rate of failure. if you are not ready to dedicate your life to it and basically be married to it then stop.

To all of the regulars on the site, keep up the good work. I may not post as much as some of you, but i make a point to check things here twice a day even if it is just for 2 minutes. I enjoy reading all of the posts. Just me continuing my education!

[smiley blonde]

I have read these posts and completely agree!!!!

I wish my boyfriend had worked in the industry before he went ahead and bought a bar out of state with his friend, etc.

He will be moving very soon and I am afraid in for a serious wake up call as to what the bar life is all about.

Also, he has a full time day job that he will work 40 hours and then go deal with the bar at night?????

And his partner will never be there helping out anymore once his wife has a baby

I wish I could have told him all of these things as I fear the worst for him--

He keeps talking about it like it will be some fun walk in the park

He has NO idea the work it is going to take and I know him and he is not even that social and does not like a lot of stress--

[40 Thieves]

Will you be helping him?

[smiley blonde]

No, unfortunately not.

I am not moving at this current time. I think this is a wise move because he is going to be so busy with his full-time job and then working with the bar.

It just worries me because I feel very strongly that once the other owner's wife has the baby which will be very soon, everything with that bar is going to get dumped on my bfriend.

Also, the other owner lives about 40 minutes away from the bar and basically has not spent a lot of time in there since it opened last fall.

I just see trouble don't you???

[ontheway]

It may be tough to work a 40 hour a week job and run a nightclub or bar as well. He may be one of the few that can do it though! I know my places require well beyond the relm of the 40 hour work week. As for having partners that do not help in the running of the business, he should be compensated beyond the distributions they take with a form of salary in some manner. This all depends how the business is set up (inc, LLC, or whatever.) I have read your other posts about this situation and i think you should have every right to be afraid for him. I wish you luck and hopefully he can succeed!

[smiley blonde]

Yes you are so right--

I think the bar thing is going to be a huge wake up call for him. My other friends who know him think he is going to hate it.

The times he has been out there which have only been a few since it opened, and I went with him once, he has viewed it as a vacation as sorts.

Wait until he really has to do the work that it is going to take to keep it surviving, etc

And the bar right now is losing money every month.

Well I know they lease the space -- they do not own the bar. so, I do not know what that means if the bar does go under-

Do you know how that works out? The only person who they pay a salary to is the manager and he basically is the one there 24/7 dealing with everything

I really wish he would rent his house here and go out there and give it a shot to see if he likes it and if it is going to work--

then again, maybe his house will not sell right away to buy him the time

How long do you think it will take before he realizes what he has got himself into? 2 weeks-- 2 months? any idea when reality will hit?

[ontheway]

If they leased the space and the bar goes under they be in some more trouble other than losing the money they bought the bar for and put into it. Most leases have a thing called guarantees. Basically the landlord protects themselves in the occurrences that the business does not make it. They normally go after the term of the lease, and they can be done two ways corporate or personal.

For example, say they have a 5 year lease. The leasing company may have been able to get them to gurantee the life of the lease which is 5 years. Say they fail after year one. This means they have to pay the money for the rent for the next 4 years even though they went out of business! Most people try to negotiate a shorter guarantee period (mine has always been one year.) I know you are thinking that if they file bancruptcy they should be fine, wrong. Most Leasing companies will not take a corporate guarantee, meaning the business is responsible for the guarantee. They will only take personal. Again this is to protect themselves. So if the business goes under, files bancruptcy and has no money then they can go after the owners personal finances. Sometimes this can cause people to have to claim bancruptcy. That is never good.

I am not trying to scare you, but rather answer your question. I am not sure of all the details involved with this situation, so it may not be 100% relative. It sounds to me that if the place has been losing money every month that the manager that they have hired to run everything may not be the person they want running the business. If i had to guess this person either does not know what he/she is doing or just the opposite. Meaning they know where they can get their hands on money and steal which would make the business have a negative profit every month.

My suggestion to your boyfriend is to be there fulltime with the manager still around and give no hint to believing the manager is doing bad or something wrong. Just be there all of the time and observe for a week or two. I think for the fact that he has no experience he will learn some of the ins and outs of the business and may be able to pick up on some theft. With out experience this may be difficult and can not be something done when the time is there. It will take asking questions about EVERYTHING! and i mean even things that seem simple. Hope i did not ramble on,but just trying to give some help.

[macaws49]

I was reading your post. My question is why do you have the section SO YOU WANT TO OPEN A NIGHTCLUB. When I read that I thought it was a place to post about opening a club. Perhaps you should take that out, it seems to be misleading.
When I opened a pet store 20 years ago I knew nothing about owning a business or pets, other than dogs. I read books and talked to people in the same business, who did not recent it. I started in my garage and ended up buying a commercial building on main street. It made me a good living but Iwant to do something new. Dreams can come true with long hard hours and the ability to ask questions from the old timers who do not recent it.

[ontheway]

After re-reading my posts i do not think it sounds as if i dislike the business or people asking questions. (i think my answers were pretty helpful!) Some of the feedback that does come through here can sound that way because people have a false perception of this business being all glamour and fun, and that is the furthest thing from the truth. When you get this 50 times a week you kind of get a bitterness about people with no idea what it takes talking about it like it is nothing and anyone can do it. As a person who has done it all and take myself to be fairly successful and the same for some of the others here we have to bust our butts! We work long and hard and i guess we want people to recognize that! And not to discredit us by saying "i am tired of working 40 hours a week, i think i will open a bar". Anyway i love what i do and would not trade it for anything...Well maybe winning the Mega Millions!

[jermeme]

after reading this thread, i gotta ask. is there anybody here that has been that starry eyed fool (i am), but ended up making their dream happen and it works out? gotta be somebody, right? anybody? bought an established bar or something.

[BASEMENT2008]

It was a year ago that stumbled on this forum with no experience, or money only with an understanding of the opportunity I had here in Cheney. I didn't ask many questions, but I read everything and recieved a skeleton of what I needed to do get The Basement open. I am very grateful to those who shared, asked stupid questions for me and those who caused me to consider scenerious I could not understand until I was open for a while.

Now, I that we have been open for a couple months and worked harder and longer than ever before. Like the Thurdays night I sold out of B** and C**rs light and had to wake up my beer reps at 4am in a panic. Or when the damn plummers broke a pipe and flooded my bar. It really is a lifestyle, everyone wants to be your friend or sell you something. In my state if you cough wrong the liquor board will fine you for it, that was a relationship I never considered when I was on the other side of the bar. While I'm happy to that my friends are having a good time at my why do they expect to drink for free four nights out of the week? These are things newbies have no concept of understanding.

So, thank you for your time, maybe one day soon. I'll be able to write more on this forum.

[Kurt_3_0_1]

I have spent 15 years now in the military I expect nothing for my service it was my job I got paid for it and had a great time doing what I do. in five years I will retire. I do not have a degree in business although I have ran restocked procured fixed helicopters fought ran till i puked and now what? im about to retire. well maybe owning a bar is not a constant party and maybe I wont be hugh hefner in the end. what I am not is a 17 year old looking to score my own place to pick up girls although I probably will be picking up a few when I can LOL. I am not in anyway shape form or fashion a drug user or an drunk I know this is a lifestyle it is one that I would like to take part in however. When I came into the military as a young guy those who have come before me tought me how to fight has they have and thier passed on experience has kept me alive thus far. you guys to me in this are the same and I dont mean to offend simply by being ignorant about it. I have the utmost repect for you guys who have dedicated yourselves to this proffesion and hope that I can do you justice in it. My bar will not make money for you I will probably keep it all assuming it makes a profit. but you guys will help make me I only hope that not being a 17yr old with a dick that doesnt even get soft which they tend to think with will attest to my seriousness and qualify me for a moment of your time.

thanks to all of you for being here and helping me along.

[GroundZero]

I defense for the hardworking newbies out there...I am well aware of how much time, effort, money and commitment it takes to begin a nightclub.

I have been writing, editing and rewritting a business plan for almost a year now.

I have also been working on 3-D renderings of the proposed nightclub.

I have put together a team and divided responsibilities.

I have have reached out for investors.

I have investigated SBA loans.

I have signed up for SBA business seminars.

I have planned promotional events to attempt to raise capital.

I have started a small dance company to acquire more small capital.

I have done all of this and more, yet I still seem to be at ground zero.

I have been a barback before, but that doesnt give me the means to open a new club. I have graduated college with a math degree, that doesnt give me the means to be my companies accountant which is needed.

I have investigated and listed all liscenses, permits, responsiblities, expenses ect...needed to begin a nightclub.

I have attempted to make 5 year projections.

I have contacted all main clubs in the d.c. area to collect market research.

I have spoken with several club owners to rub elbows and make connections.

I have done all of this and more (and I doubt that I am the only newb who has) yet I have gotten no where. All we are looking for is a start a "break". No one is just going to hand me $350,000 dollars, I am aware of that but there is no..working my way to a manager of a club or inheriting the business and frankly this is getting a little frustrating. But the more I research, when ever I come up with a new task to complete, the drive is rekindeled.

But I am seriously at a loss right now. I have a truly unique idea and have done the research to make worthwhile, but I have no idea how to get the funds to turn the gears.

[David]

You hit the nail right on the head. If you don't have at least half of the capital (start up funds) up front, there isn't a lender that will take the gamble.

[NakedAge]

My view is this.

I'm a Dj, not a promoter. I've helped ALOT of night clubs along the way, infact one has 90% return trade, who wouldn't return had it not been for me.


Now, I'm not always going to get given gigs, even though, they come free and fast, like, I needed to create something for me, by me, so that I'd always have a place. And so I started running events, for a few reasons.

A- To give back to the scene
B- To give chances to others that I didn't get.
C- To create work. You see, we all love what we do, and my business focuses on incorporating everybody's skill into something creative. We in effect create work for ourselves.
D- Use the power of both being a Dj, and throwing a party, to do some good for the world. Because if I can get the people, they will listen to a Dj, if that Dj tells them to do something, they will listen... Tell them to clean up their act, and we could do alot of good for this world.


Now, I've just messaged someone who I think is a regular here, saying I don't know what I'm doing. Because I don't. I've been doing this for 4 years now and only recently had a successful night start.. It's been long and hard for me and to only have 2 successes put of how many failures, obviously I'm doing something wrong, and don't know what I'm doing.

So thats why I'm here, and would like tips and secrets, because I do know how hard it is, and I've been at it a while now with no results so need help in figuring out what I'm doing wrong.

[*La Bomba*]

I agree and disagree, well virtually due to the fact that i am that sterotypical youngh adult, venturing in on an investment of a life time!

MY DREAM, has always been to excel in some way in the entertainment field. I am 20 years old, and at 17 was basically upruted from any thing i knew, to Ukraine. I have take university courses here and there, but at the end of the day, the real world really is the test...

I would say that to any 17-19 year old investigating information on this web site, in fact is smart, maybe he/she dosent have the financial fall back, or resources to make it, but anyone who is some what intellectual, can understand and respect the fact that the up comming generation of children are more driven then ever to think out side of the "box"!

Thankfully for me, i have a great mother who has been a sucsessful business investor ever since i could remember, from property reality, to commercial, and so forth, so i have lived through that experience.

I cannot say that i have even worked in a bar/restruant/club in my life, but, i can say that for any enthusist that there are the resources and guides out there LIKE THIS, to help you along your journey..

I would like to add that a BIG part of running a sucsessfull club and restruant, is people skills, day to day common sense, and net-working... what will make a sucsess is not a donald trumph who owns a club, but a hospitable atmosphere, and an enthusiastic energy that is maintained in the venue...

I can say that starting this process by my self at 19 was alittle bit of a venture, the start up costs were enormous, and my life was completely over taken by my day to day needs by my business, but if your dedicated and you are doing what you WANT and LOVE, then that is what will decide on what will make you or brake you....

Like i have mentioned i am 20 years old now, i am living in Ukraine, that is in europe, i have a SALON/SPA and a CLUB/Restruant...of course all posible due to the financing of my mom. BUt i do say for any YOUNG enthusiastic people like my self, GO GET EM! i believe that everything starts from some dream, and idea...

Concluding, although my english grammer is encreasingly going to the pits, picking up russian and ukrainian, and the amount of enormous respect i have at 20 is amazing...

my first months income on my club/restruant LA BOMBA was net 34,000 american, and this is in a third world country, and i am 20 years old with no more then a high school diploma, and some insignificant university courses in medicine....

so believe it, this younger generation i apploud your efforts, and i believe that you too with some research and some more understandings can do it as well, email me at

Krystal.l@rogers.com

I will be happy to help you with as much as i can, considering these people don't seem to be happy to hear from there future care givers~!

LA BOMBA INC.
DIRECTOR/OWNER
K.V.L

[Angie]

Hi everyone! I stumbled across this site...and I am so glad I did! I have not been able to find such a wealth of info anywhere else! I've been busy reading old posts, so not to annoy people with my questions. This is my first post, and its because I'd like to give a "newbies" perspective. I am a 27 year old female, with a dream to open a buisness. I always knew it was my calling to manage, to lead. It wasn't until a few months ago i thought, maybe a night club would be the right choice. I have NO experience at all.... but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be a sucess. I think people come here for advice, from people who have been there, done that.

My town is small, and has 2 bars. The 20 somethings have nothing to do and travel the 30-45 minutes to chattanooga to go to e-cowboy and places like that. My idea was to have a venue to serve many purposes. My problem is, i don't know where to start. I am known as the girl with ideas...but the problem is that they stay on paper. People like me are "information gathers" and just need encouragment, advice, or a wake up call. So, please don't be to harsh on the newbies.

I look forward to chatting with you all....and i must say i find this site refreshing! People can actualy express their views without being bashed. I have found more helpful info on here in 1 week than i have in months of googling. You all who have experience and are kind enough to share it....know it's not wasted. I soak it up like a sponge!

Angie

[JPointer]

so we should all just give up on our dreams because we dont have any experience in the business, thanks


No, but go get some experience. Work in a bar/club for a FEW YEARS. Learn bartending, learn management from successful bars/clubs in your area. THEN, once you have seen what works, what doesnt, and what is missing in your area, start looking for partners/investors to open your own place.

[bruce]

I just found this sight yesterday and I must say what I have read so far has been great. I currently own a restaurant with a bar. And in Washington State most bars are struggling for many reasons. My town is in a state of flux as it is just now starting to grow. We currently have four bars trying to make a living in two blocks on the main drag in town and a population of 1100 people to try and draw from. Most people work in other towns and just live in our comunity. This makes it difficult to attract customers on a regular basis when all four places combined only have about 8000 square feet of customer area. Our county writes about a 100 dui tickets per month from a total population of less than a 100,000. These usually cost the perp about $6000-$8000 and needless to say this does not come back to the bars. I took a chance on this business with very little idea about what I was getting into and must say that after a year and a half that I like the restaurant part of my business but I am on the wrong side of the bar part. My wife works with me from 6am till closing five days a week and I give her as much time as possible at home. We have been fighting with each other for close to 29 years and the bar business takes by far the biggest toll aside from children. If anyone feels that they want to own a bar, start early and plan on working a minimum 120 hours a week until you build enough business to survive. Sorry that my first try at posting is so long.

[Ca_il]

I've been reading the posts on this site for a couple days, but this thread somehow made me register. Yes, I'm just another new girl who doesn't know what's going on.

I haven't even finished High School, but I've wanted to be apart of nightlife for a little over a year, now. Don't get me wrong, I have no intention of even managing a nightclub or bar for at least quite a while- /years/ and I'm still only thinking about it. I'm going to work my way up through time. I'm lucky enough to have a family full of people who know what's going.

My mother owned a restraunt until about twelve years ago. She grew up in it. Her mom started the restraunt when my grandpa was at war (1940's). The restraunt didn't go under, but she decided to drop it for personal reasons. She's now a waitress and may start the restraunt up, again.
My sister, with my bro, grew up in the family restraunt and know all about it. My sister now manages a restraunt, too. Maybe she'll own one, someday.
My brother owns a business that he started when he was nineteen. Nine years later, he has clients in many other countries. Not rich. Aha. No, no. He loves it. He likes bartending, so he picks it up on the side here and there.
I also have another family member who knows most of the dirty tricks people use to screw you over. Though I'm sure I've got tp see this stuff first-hand. The stuff he says! People are DIRTY.... Then again, it's bad enough at the place I work at.

I, too, grew up in a restraunt. Not a bar, but I've got down the daytime stuff. I hope to have a coffee spot during the day. Now I'm a waitress and soon will be in a bar.

Growing up in a restraunt, I knew I loved it. I love the people and I love knowing the people who come in. At the same time, I knew that I wanted to do something different. Eventually I came into nightlife and I decided what I wanted to do. What I want to do.

I'm lucky and hope it doesn't get too much better- my town and surrounding smaller towns have a dead night life. We only have a few drunkard bars and a donut shop. Everyone has to drive to a few towns over to get anywhere interesting.

I'm constantly reading career information and thinking, "Maybe I'll find something I want more", but I haven't. I keep thinking, "Maybe this will be /too/ hard?" But no... I think it will be worth it. I may not be rich and I may not always be happy, but I'll love it...

I sound like a crazy little newb, don't I? o_o; Oh, no. I sound like my siblings, too. Well, they're okay. I'll be okay.

[DetroitMusic]

I completely understand what you all mean by people coming on here and saying hey last night i decided to open a bar! Well I am sort of one of those people but I have been looking to open a venue/bar/club for nearly 4 years now. Wanted to for a lot longer but actually started to research write business plan, looking for prime location etc etc etc.... these last 4 years. So of us arent just jumping into it. I am 23 years old and have excellent ideas and have worked my butt to get this all right and learn as much as I can before jumping into something this big. I come online on forums like this and may ask stupid questions but sometimes it better to post up and ask someone whos gone through this a stupid question and get there experience from it then to read how it "SHOULD" be done in a book. I have always been a person who learns better by personal experience and by hearing other peoples perspectives. Reading a book on how to do something just dont work for me. Now I have not had any experience in the CLUB/VENUE/BAR scene expect being a customer lol... but I have run a few companies in my time (even though I am still young). So in closing dont be so quick to judge those of us new beginners and unexperience club/venue/bar "owners" or "would like to be owners" because not all of us are the overnight deciders.

[kime34]

I worked in a liquor store for six years, had a best friend who owns a bar, was a waitress at two different bars and currently manage two businesses with 48 employees not to mention I have visited more bars and clubs than I care to count. Some might say that’s no experience but I know I can run a bar and run that bar damn good. I come from a family of alcoholics so I know what it takes to put up with a bunch of drunks. My husband was a bartender for some time also.


The decision to open a bar did not happen over night. We have thought about this for years and finally have talked my spouse into going ahead with the plan. We did a lot of research in our area before deciding to take the plunge. If we are going to ever do this right now would be the time to do it. I am far, far from lazy. When I make up my mind to do something I give 150%, I give my all. I have never failed at anything I’ve decided to do and if it is at all possible neither will my family and I fail at running a bar. I’m not asking anyone to spill their secrets but it is very nice to have others who have made mistakes to share that with people just getting into the business and helping out. I know how to run a business, may not have ever owned a bar but I’m darn good at handling people and multitasking. We don’t plan on getting rich but do plan on having a prosperous business. I’m not asking anyone for money, have already got the ok from the bank that they will be there when we need them.


I disagree that owning/running a bar can’t be fun, it can be fun but of course you are going to have times when it’s down right trying. I believe in order to run a place right you have to like what you are doing. We like people, talking to them and getting to know them and we’re not afraid of hard work. I also know what people like; customer service and a clean place will not be a problem.

If I have asked stupid questions I suppose it's because I am eager to learn anything and everything about this business. I did not mean to piss anyone off, if so I do apologize. I do understand where you are coming from because I have read a few post myself that had me shaking my head but for some of us the plan to open and run a bar is very real and near so I hope you don’t just skip over our post because I’m sure you will be a book of knowledge if you are willing to spill those secrets.

I think anyone who reads Allan’s thread would get a pretty good account of the day to day running of a bar and how big of a headache it can be. I figure I have dedicated myself to other people and made them tons of money why not put that energy and time into something for my family and myself. If we try and fail at least we tried. It's only money. Hey, I might have just found the name for our bar. :D

That’s just my thoughts on this matter.

Thanks,
Kim