Would this work or to small?

[JamesII]

I just sold a liquor store that I had ran for 3 years since graduating high school and made a decent chunk of change. While doing that I bartended and always wanted to open a bar because the profit margin is significantly higher. I found a building and would this work.

Its an old building in a downtown setting of metro detoit. The area is in the beginning of a reivitilization period. There are three bars with in a block of this unit for sale. Its 2,400 sq feet 1,300 of which is downstairs and 1,100 foot loft above in which I would live since my store I sold also had a house with it and I need a place to live. Could you make a bar work with that limited space, it has all brick walls and wood floors and alot of character. I could buy the building for $140,000 and there is nothing in it. Main floor has two bathrooms that are small with 3 stalls each. No prep room or anything, just wide open floor plan. I have the capital to buy the building and invest atleast another $100,000 into where I am going to run the business and live. I could care less what I live in as long as I could get the bar going. The town has a bad reputation for being rough but has a majority of all the nice clubs in the town. In fact the building is flanked by a nice sports bar that is rather busy. Is it possible to convert something that small into a decent bar and how many people do you think I would be able to put in it. I have the promotion for the bar fine because I am in a fraternity and could have all the sororities and fraternities patronize the place, its just the size that I am worried about. And if anyone has lived above their bar is that a good thing or a bad thing. The whole time I ran the party store I worked 84 hours a week and never left because I lived behind it, and the same thing will go now. Only time off I would take is to go to class in the morning 2 days a week and my father said he would work for me.

Just throwing that out there, I know it was just a large fragmented thought, but I am mainly concerned about the size. Any help I would appreciate.

[Securitygeek]

with a place that small you might consider a piano bar. I have seen several that have a max occupancy of less than 250 make a go of it and do very well. just a thought.

[Estefon]

I like your attitude James, I really do. But 1300 sq. feet is tiny. I'd be curious what the Fire Code Occupancy is on a building that size, but I'd say that 75 people in the place would make it packed to the wall. 50-60 people sounds somewhat realistic for occupancy. It's not impossible, but we'll need some more info here.

What would your overhead be? How much of a check average do you expect and what would your customer count be projected at? I'm sure you have many ideas floating in your head of what type of place it could be. I'd be curious to see you articulate your thoughts further.

[JamesII]

I don't know as of yet. I have a little over 280,000 cash that I can invest into the the place. That would be before I purchased the building. My father raised me under the belief that if you can't pay cash for something you don't need it. So I would like to keep it there. I would work 90% of the hours and hire another bartender and hopefully a few other people. I am not sure of what amount of money I would need to take in to cover all the expenses yet. I am trying to work on that now. My payment if I took a loan would be less then 1,000 a month and that would include my house, and that is less then the average house payment. I was hoping to do atleast 7,000 a week. I am not looking to get rich off this but the margin would be there to be profitable and pay for itself and put some more money in my pocket. I was thinking of going a contemporary designed sports bar-pub. The fire code the city is sending me information about how many and need to review the building before they give me a number since no one has run a bar/food or anything other then proffesional. I was guessing that I would be able to fit atleast 50 people in there. I would hope for at a min 15-25 mon-thursday, capacity on the weekend. During the week run some college specials to get people in and keep it packed. ANd I would hope to clear 7,000 net a week, trying to figure the min numbers but I have to wait and see what the insurance and some other costs are going to be. I know insurance wasn't cheap on the party store and doubt it will be cheaper in a bar since you actuall serve them the stuff and you are liable when they leave your facility.

And if that is it every time I have been to a bar people like to be in a crowd. At my frat house no matter how big a party people end up in the kitchen even though it is the smallest room. And its not because there is a fridge with beer, that is all in the bar room. Its weird but people are drawn into small places. I was going to attempt to make the place an "intemint" (I can't spell) setting. Rather modern and industrial in design. And if that wouldn't work I was looking through plans to opening up the loft upstairs and turning that into a bar as well. The thing with that is I would have to install a sprinkler system, and that is a little bit of change and I would be homeless. So that is very doubtfull. I am just thinking chill place, nice plasma tv's, nice imported beer and wines priced cheap, because at 6 dollars a bottle next store they are raping people on Heinken, Bells, all other imporsts. Have a few good looking girls for the older men and everyone else to oggle over, and just make sure the patrons would have a good time. I am flexible, see what works and go with it. If not I am not afraid to change the identity of the club to be profitable. I met a guy that plays at clubs all over the state, and he is the one man band. Can play any song and loops the base, drums, and everything with peddles in front of you and sounds amazing and is legit. Bring him on a night, and the rest keep and see how it goes. I really don't think I can loose on this because if the bar flops it is prime real estate, pull the stuff out and lease the bottom out for over what my payment is and still live for free and find another business to buy. But I think that bar would work.

WHat are your thoughts on what amount of money I would have to bring in weekly to cover costs? I don't think that it would be that high at all. ALso if that sceme and theme doesn't work what other ideas are there?

ANd to answer the other question there is a piano bar-club about 2 miles away that has good business and I doubt I could compete on that font.

[ministry]

why wouldnt it work ? keep your overhead down and expenses in check and you could make a go of it. ever hear of a bar called hogs and heffers ? its the bar that the movie coyote ugly is based on. it's in nyc and it might be 1000sqft if they are lucky and its in the meat packing district ! i bet they do a million a year.