opening a bar in korea...

[endofthewor1d]

hello all. i just found this forum about five minutes ago, and just joined it about one minute ago. i'm an american citizen, but i've been living and teaching english in south korea for the past five years. i'm recently married, and planning to spend the foreseeable rest of my future in korea.
bottom line... i want to open a bar here.
i'm confident that i can get through all of the legal red tape involved with me being a foreigner by having the bar registered in either my wife's name, or perhaps her father's.
i don't want this place to be a nightclub, or anything too fancy. just a nice place to drink, listen to music, meet people, etc....
i also don't expect to get terribly wealthy from this. i'll be satisfied if i can do marginally better than breaking even. i simply want to own a bar.

the biggest advantage i have is that i'm 29 years old, i've got a lot of free time on my hands, and i'm making enough money to put away about 1000US every month. i'm going to start putting that money into a mutual fund every month, and allow it to grow for however many years i need to before i have the startup capital i'll need to get my dream underway.

the biggest disadvantage i have is that i don't know the first thing about running a bar.

so in the meantime, between now and opening day, i'd like to read up a bit, and find out all of the pertinent information that i can. this message that i'm typing now is my first step toward my goal. i would be very appreciative if any of you could recommend some books that i should read or websites i should visit. i realise that books dealing with information about situations as peculiar and specific as mine are not likely to exist, so i'm really more in the market for a 'so-you-want-to-open-a-bar' type of book. however, if i'm mistaken, and there are books out there so specific as to be included in the 'so-you're-a-foreigner-who-wants-to-open-a-bar-in-korea' genre, please please please do not hesitate to inform me of those titles as well.

of course, any specific information or advice (or just words of encouragement :D ) from you as individuals is more than welcome as well.
however, i will make a preemptive strike against two such responses that i already anticipate:
1.) are you sure this is what you want to do...?
yes. i'm sure. should i find i don't like it, i'll have lost some time and some money, and my life will go on.
2.) registering a bar in your wife's name can be risky. what if she...?
i know. but it's a necessary evil here in korea. it's next to impossible for a foreigner to register a buisness here. i trust my wife. should our marriage fall apart, this will be a good sign that my life has gone to shit, and i've got bigger things to worry about than my bar.

for those of you have taken the time to read this, you have my thanks.
for those of you who take the time to respond, you have my eternal gratitude.

[Securitygeek]

Well you have taken the necessary first steps. I would recomend reading the old posts on this board both in this forum and the general forum. Also reading Allanjustallan's thread about his experiences with opening and running a bar in California is almost a must read. Since your in Korea (S. Korea I assume) are you near any of the U.S. Military bases? If so that could be a huge draw especially if the place was themed in a way to make service personell feel at home... a few ideas include: pinball machines, old movie posters, American music, etc...

I would also look into any laws concerning alcohol... I know the Japanese are picky as hell about it, ditto China, I don't know anything about Korea other than generally where it is. :)

Anyway good luck and keep us posted. :)

[endofthewor1d]

Well you have taken the necessary first steps. I would recomend reading the old posts on this board both in this forum and the general forum. Also reading Allanjustallan's thread about his experiences with opening and running a bar in California is almost a must read.

thanks for that advice, geek. i'll zero in on allanjustallan as soon as i finish my class today. i haven't yet had an opportunity to give this forum a thorough looking through. i have every intention of doing so in the days and weeks to come.



Since your in Korea (S. Korea I assume) are you near any of the U.S. Military bases? If so that could be a huge draw especially if the place was themed in a way to make service personell feel at home... a few ideas include: pinball machines, old movie posters, American music, etc...

i'm out in gimpo city. no bases around here. i'll be catering to a 99% korean crowd, with an expat english teacher or two stumbling in every now and again. gimpo is a satellite city of seoul, and they are currently planning to connect it to the seoul subway line. the city currently has two bars worth going to, and they both seem to do very well. with the growth that is about to occur in the area, i don't foresee my bar saturating the market.



I would also look into any laws concerning alcohol... I know the Japanese are picky as hell about it, ditto China, I don't know anything about Korea other than generally where it is. :)

Anyway good luck and keep us posted. :)

yes. i'm fortunate enough to have gotten in touch with someone who has been down the road i intend to travel before. i met him through a forum such as this, but for expats in korea. and although he's been thus far very forthcoming with information, tales of his own experience, and advice, i'm trying to be careful not to squeeze him for too much information too quickly. for the korean alcohol laws, this is something i will ask him about. but for the more general stuff, i will continue to bother you good people. :D

[endofthewor1d]

so i've spent some time doing what research i can, talking to some foreigners who own bars here in korea, and my wife's uncle, who used to own a nightclub in seoul, and now owns a restaurant in ansan. i've found out some good things. liquor liscenses are really easy to get. there's almost nothing in the way of annoying rules or regulations (smoking laws, closing times, etc...). one of us will have to take a hygene and safety course. i nominate my wife because she speaks korean and will have the time.
other than that, i guess it's just a matter of saving enough money to get started.
at the rate we're going, i believe i can realistically save enough to start with in the next four years, though i'd prefer to do it in three so that i can get some regulars in there before the next world cup starts.
what can/should i be doing in the meantime? thanks!

[Jby2kn2]

what can/should i be doing in the meantime?

I would suggest getting a part time job in a bar, even just 1 or 2 nights a week, just to get some experience etc. You mentioned your wifes uncle has a restraunt, might this have a bar inside? And if it does, im sure he will gladly hire you part time.

Hope it works out for you, and best of luck :)

[endofthewor1d]

I would suggest getting a part time job in a bar, even just 1 or 2 nights a week, just to get some experience etc. You mentioned your wifes uncle has a restraunt, might this have a bar inside? And if it does, im sure he will gladly hire you part time.

Hope it works out for you, and best of luck :)


thanks. that won't be a possibility for me. my uncle's restaurant is about two hours away. and there's not a lot of demand in the local bars for a bartender that doesn't speak fluent korean.
however, my wife hates her current job but wants to stay on with it until winter vacation, and we've talked about her getting a job in a bar after she quits, just so she can learn the ropes and ask a lot of questions.
thanks for the encouragement!

[David]

When ever I travel abroad, I patronize the ExPat bars and Clubs. Is this kind of what you are thinking?

[endofthewor1d]

When ever I travel abroad, I patronize the ExPat bars and Clubs. Is this kind of what you are thinking?

as far as asia goes, south korea is hardly a tourist hotspot, and gimpo city is a microcosm of that within korea. the only expats i'm likely to see are the 30 or so english teachers who live in gimpo and can't be bothered to go into seoul on the weekends. i'll do my best to make sure that they know my bar exists, but i'm really counting on the younger generation of koreans in the area who are becoming increasingly more interested in the 'western bar' scene.
i'll have drink menus printed in korean and english, of course. but as far as it being an 'expat bar', that's really just a matter of whether the local expats choose to call it their second home. there are only a handful of locations (geographic areas in seoul as opposed to specific bars) that cater to foreigners in korea. the only difference between the western bars in those areas and the western bars outside of those areas are that the ones within those areas have a higher proportion of foreigners to koreans. if i was going to cater specifically to foreigners, i'd just have to open my bar in hongdae, itaewon, nowon, or one of the few other foreigner hotspots in the country.
however, in my visits to a couple of foreign-owned bars outside of those areas, i've seen a few foreign customers who pop in for an after-work beer or two, and a surprising number of koreans who go there to practice their english with the barman.
one of the bar owners told me flat out that it's the koreans who like to throw their money around, and i should make sure i treat them very well. he said that foreigners in korea tend, on the whole, to pinch their pennies.

[Rene G]

hows it going? well i was brouseing around and saw your post, Thought we have some in common since i am planning to open a bar in asia too, Thailand.
I am 27 and i do have experience in this field since i been djing in clubs, bars and managing them as well since i was 21.

I would recommend that you try and get a job in a bar, club before you open one if it is not possible then try and patronize some bars, if only for a few hours, twice a week or more if you have the time.

Reading books is a good way to familiarize your self with the ins and outs of the business but its not enough all by itself but i have some books that you can order that i have read personally that might give you very useful tips:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0471304611/002-5087830-7074469?v=glance&n=283155

http://shopping.yahoo.com/p:How%20to%20Setup%20and%20Operate%20a%20Successfu l%20Nightclub%3A%20An%20Entrepreneur%27s%20Guide%2 0to%20Running%20a%20Profitable%20Club%20Operation: 3001551228;_ylc=X3oDMTB1c21tcDhkBF9TAzk2NjMyOTA3BH NlYwNmZWVkBHNsawNib29rcw--

these 2 books should give you enough info to get you started, again i have to say experience in this business is key.

hope this helps, by the way this is my first post :D just thought that your story is interesting cause its similar to mine in a way good luck & hope to hear from you soon...

regards
Rene

[endofthewor1d]

hows it going? well i was brouseing around and saw your post, Thought we have some in common since i am planning to open a bar in asia too, Thailand.
I am 27 and i do have experience in this field since i been djing in clubs, bars and managing them as well since i was 21.

I would recommend that you try and get a job in a bar, club before you open one if it is not possible then try and patronize some bars, if only for a few hours, twice a week or more if you have the time.

Reading books is a good way to familiarize your self with the ins and outs of the business but its not enough all by itself but i have some books that you can order that i have read personally that might give you very useful tips:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0471304611/002-5087830-7074469?v=glance&n=283155

http://shopping.yahoo.com/p:How%20to%20Setup%20and%20Operate%20a%20Successfu l%20Nightclub%3A%20An%20Entrepreneur%27s%20Guide%2 0to%20Running%20a%20Profitable%20Club%20Operation: 3001551228;_ylc=X3oDMTB1c21tcDhkBF9TAzk2NjMyOTA3BH NlYwNmZWVkBHNsawNib29rcw--

these 2 books should give you enough info to get you started, again i have to say experience in this business is key.

hope this helps, by the way this is my first post :D just thought that your story is interesting cause its similar to mine in a way good luck & hope to hear from you soon...

regards
Rene

thanks rene.
your post was a pick-me-up. i noticed that you also posted in my thread over in the general discussion forum, so i'll reply over there as well.
as for your bar in thailand... in my searching around for information that was pertinent to my situation, i stumbled upon a bit of information that may be pertinent to yours. i ran across an 'expats in thailand' discussion forum, in which someone posted that they were interested in opening a bar in thailand. i read through it, and my advice to you is to make sure you know what you're getting into. you mentioned something in your other post about having to pay off the cops and stuff... so i guess you know at least some of what you're up against. but the main problem that the posters over there talked about was the fact that everyone and their dog wants to open a bar in thailand. apparrantly there is an entire industry over there devoted to selling crappy bars to naieve foreigners.
anyway... thanks again, and good luck with your endeavours.

[IvanixPOS]

Greetings EOW and Rene,

Just came across this thread. I was begining to wonder whether there were other expats living in Asia that were on this forum. I'm an American living in Tawian and had been thinking for quite a while to open up my own bar or club. I've enjoyed visiting a few of the expat bars located out here and surrounding places. I've been looking for a reason to visit S Korea. Let me know when you're up and running.
Rene, I'll be over in BKK on the second week of August. If you're in town perhaps we can hook for a drink.

[endofthewor1d]

hey IvanixPOS.
what are you doing in taiwan? are you teaching english there? if so, that's a good reason to come over to korea. the money is about the same, and the alphabet is a hell of a lot easier.
i started up with this bar idea about six months ago, and i've been putting money towards it for five months now, during which time i've managed to save about 10% of the target figure i set for myself. if i continue along my present course, i should be ready to open in about four or five years. but there are a lot of variables that could make that happen a few years later or even a year or so sooner. the biggest one is the target figure i mentioned, and whether or not it has any basis in reality. i pretty much just pulled a number out of my ass after checking out the prices of commercial real estate in the area on the internet. i'd really like to have it up and running before the next world cup. the one thing i'm not looking forward to in this business is having to pretend i care about soccer.

tonight i'm going to meet a friend who was the assistant manager of a bar in japan for a few years, and who is currently visiting korea. i hope he'll have some useful or encouraging things to say.

anyway... if you ever do opt to visit korea before i set up shop, drop me a line. we can have a constructive night of research (drinking).

[IvanixPOS]

Hi EOW,

I came out here to help manage and build a new software division for a computer manufacturing company. After a couple years, I decided I was at that stage of my life where I needed to run my own business. Initially I provided software consulting to companies like my former employer, but now I am focusing on providing technology to bars and restaurants.

Sounds like you're going to be over there for the long haul. I'll give you a ring when I head over your way. Perhaps by end of year.

Good luck

[Rene G]

hi folks
sorry for the late reply, i was in Thailand, i did have internet access but not enough time... Ivan seems you showed up in thailand at the time i had to leave :) i bet i saw you in the airport but didnt recognise you :p , Will be back in november though. If your still around and your still up for a drink then by all means. :cool:

EOTW What can i say Thailand is not what it seems man, that i know. Like the popular name "land of smiles" its not exactly what i would call it but, there is a massive expats scene there, That and putting in mind the fact that i came into thailand with a priority plan in mind, to open a pub/club there and NOT as a tourist going there for a month and then later changed my mind... like most expats who own bars in thailand did. Most, if not all who came into the social entertainment business with no background just as a random discision that hey its easy and fun and that way i can make some cash to pay my bills, people with that kind of mentality barely manage to just 'pay off their bills' IF they get lucky, they are gonna do just that until they close up and run off back to where they came from... Thats why you see alot of sleazy karaoke bars over in bangkok up for lease to the highest bidder and when they see a foreigner they think hey look at that walking ATM machine, ask for alot higher than the bar is worth and the naeve foreigner who thinks its cheap and why not make some extra cash. I think i am aware of other concerns since i been there 3 times already. You see i do agree with your strategy of giving the 'research and planning' phase a longer period but i was just trying to get my point through about what works here may not work there, in the previous reply.

Good luck man.

[wh9604]

Hi "Endoftheworld",

I currently live in Suwon, a city about one hour south of Seoul. I too am hoping to open a bar at some point in the future. I would like to know how things have progressed for you to date and what information you might have for me that you have learned since your last post. I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks a bunch,

Cal

[Matt Awesome]

I guess I want the only one that discovered opening a bar would be a good Idea in Korea. I hope you have good business sense and get some experience before you get started.

[HollywoodNights]

Those are from 2006, I believe unless it's an error.

[endofthewor1d]

yeah, this thread is over three years old, but i've still got the same plan in mind. i've spent the past three years doing whatever research i can, saving money, and talking to other foreigners who have opened bars in korea.

most of those guys have a bit of a different plan in mind than what i've got. they went for popular locations in seoul, whereas i plan on opening up out here in lonely old gimpo.

another difference between myself and them is that they are paying rent, whereas i plan to buy a piece of property.

the third difference is that most of them went in with partners. no one i've talked to about my plan has seemed even remotely interested in being a part of it. that's not to say that they thought it was a bad idea. far from it, most of the foreigners i talk to here in gimpo wish i'd hurry up and open, so that they'd have a decent place to drink.

wh9604 and matt awesome...
if you guys are still in korea, i'd love to hear from you.
robertbevan@gmail.com