Sound System Help: Long Post

[tonytony]

Hello All,

I was wondering if anybody could help explain to me sound system requirements. I've read through the majority of dj sites and have gotten a pretty good idea of what people consider a "good" system or rather components. I've done my homework on sites on how exactly a sound system is supposed to be setup and what outputs feeds into what inputs, but I am still a little confused. I'm going to describe my situation, my assumptions, and what I think will work for my particular situation, so please correct me if I am wrong, don't hesitate to call me an idiot for doing what I'm doing, but do so in a way that I can learn something from it =)

I am thinking about starting my own nightclub with approximately 1000 sqft for the dance floor. Now, I approximated that I will probably need between 1000-1500 watts of power for the sound system. The consenus from this board seems to be the following in terms of recommendations for components:

Speakers: EAW or JBL
Amps: QSC, Crown, or Yorkville
Processors (EQ, Compressor, Crossover): DBX, Rain, EV

Okay, so those are the components. What I am confused about is how do I go about actually building the sound system? When I go to the EAW website, I am presented with all these choices for speakers, how do I know which to use? Same with Processors, how do I know which one to use. Case in point. I managed to get a sound setup from a local club for 1,750sqft of dance floor and it goes like this:

8 Mach M129i speakers
4 Mach 182i subs
4 Yorkville AP4040 amps
2 Yorkville AP2020 amps
2 Yorkville AP6040 amps
1 DBX 2231 31-band dual Channel EQ and Limiter
1 Mach M20.06 Controller
1 Yorkville E160P full range active cabinent

My question about this setup is why so many amps and why those specific ones? I am thinking the AP4040 powers the speakers, but what about the other 4 amps? One for each sub? Then why two different types (2020 vs 6040)? I know the 6040 is the top of the line Yorkville amp, but why use that? Also what is the Controller for? From my understanding, we have speakers, processors and amps, what is the controller doing in that setup? Finally, what is the E160P doing in that setup?

I guess those are my questions, I know I am a bit lengthly, but please help me out, I am getting all very confused. You can email me or PM me.

Thank you in advance.

Tony

[soundguy_99]

Hi,
Its tough for me to suggest a sound system for particular situation without knowing the capacity of the room, and what type of music you play, which are all factors in choosing a sound system.
As far as brands you probably will want to look into JBL a bit more closely as EAW stuff tends to be fairly pricey, but both are real high quality. As far as amp, one name you over looked is Crest, I use them alot, and they are great high performance amps, that have a good tight repsonse, as well as their reasonobly priced.
One note though regarding any amps you buy, is make sure you give them the proper AC, meaning if the amps need 20 amp circuits to operate they get it, or you won`t get your money's worth out of them, as well as it will lower the quality of sound regardless of what speakers you have.
Processors, you already mentioned a few, either XTA, JBL 280, 260, DX 38 (EV), DBX Drive Rack 460, 480, are commonly used processors, with the DBX drive rack being the most common latley, although for a club install anyone one of those are high quality processors.
With EQ's Ashley, Klark, DBX are the common ones, as well as I have seen some rane and a few clubs here and there.
As far as your question about why have all of those amps, and what their doing, unforunetly I am not familiar with the gear you mentioned, however the reason for having multiple amps, is so that you can either bi, or tri amp the rig. providing 1 power amp to each componet in the system. ie 1 Power amp powering the horns, 1 powering the mids (10 or 15 or even 12), and then 1 or 2 amps powering the subs. This way you get more control over those componets and the frequencys that those componets produce as well as better seperation beween componets, rather than relying on the internal crossovers inside the speaker to dividie the frequecies to the indivual componets, which often results in less output. This is why processors come with different number of outputs, ie 2 ins 4 (2 way stereo, Left/Right In, Lo left out, low Right out, Hi left out, Hi Right Out) or 2 ins 6 outs (3 way stereo, Left/Right In, Low Left Out, Low Right Out, Mid Left out, Mid Right out,Hi left out,Hi right out) I could keep going on but you get the idea.
Also on the concept of power, usually the amps match the speakers capabliity of out put. Note though that subs usually take more power (biger amp) to drive them as the subs need to push more air that higher frequency divers.
Also depending on what type of music youre playing may I suggest useing 15's instead of 18's for your subs. 15's are a tighter sound, and offer more bass tone, while 18's push more air, but lack the tight bottom end tone that 15's have.
Hope This Helps,
Soundguy_99

[tonytony]

SoundGuy, thx for the reply and the information. I will try to clarify as to what I am trying to build this system for. The entire nightclub will be approximately 4000sqft, so approximately 400 people or less would be the capacity. The dance floor will be about 1000sqft, so that will fit around 100 people or so. The sound system, based on what people have told me will probably be within the range of between 1000 to 1500 watts of power. Now, I think that's arbitary since that's like working backwards, given a total wattage to hit, then finding the speakers to fit that bill. Unless I'm wrong and that's the way to do it. The type of music is house music, dj mixes, trance, euro dance, etc, so you can probably imagine the lower frequencies will be stressed. Hope this helps you out in helping me out =).

I've checked out both the JBL and EAW site for their products, and to say I'm a bit overwhelmed is an understatement. Particularly with the EAW components, I don't even know where to start. With JBL there are at least series I can pick and choose from, but even then there are a lot of speakers to choose from within each series. I am thinking, from the product description that JBL's Marquis Series is more fitting to what I need, but I'm not too sure.

I also checked out those processors you mentioned. The DBX Drive Rack 480 sounds awesome, all-in-one box right? Although I can't seem to find the 460. I found the JBL 280 and 260 with no problems. Although I have a question, the 280 has two inputs and can be configured to do 2, 3, or 4 way output, while the 260 has two inputs and six way outputs. Does this mean the 260 provides more flexibilitly then the 280 and hence should get my recommended purchase? In lieu of that, does all the processors you mentioned pretty much all fit the bill in what I am looking for and thus a decision should be made based on price point? As I write that, I realize how inane that sounded, of course there are differences, but how do I go about finding those differences and if those differences really matter in my particular application? Also I read another place that instead of getting a big all-in-one box, I should purchase each components, meaning crossovers, compressors, D.S.P. (digital signal processors), etc. What do you think about that? Finally, I was wondering if you can tell me the difference between two way stereo speakers and three way stereo speakers. Does it make a difference as to what I am doing?

Soundguy, thx you so much again for your assistance. I feel like I am bombarding anyone who is replying to me or who is reading this thread with too many questions and too much information. I just want to learn more about this before spending too much money on something that can be done right the first time around. I greatly appreciate all those who are helping me out.

Tony

[soundguy_99]

Hi,
First of all on the topic of speakers, youre definetly looking at the right stuff, those JBL marquis speakers are nice stuff, although I haven`t heard the PA stuff, we use the MS 112 monitors quite a bit, and they sound great. I imagine at least 2 MS 115's a side for tops and probably 2 or 3 MS 125S'S would be more than adquate to handel your bass. Curently were using 1 JBL SRX 4733 (2 15' and a horn)Top a side along with 6 15's a side for bass, and it easily handles a 600 person club, so the marquis would be a nice choice, but the best people to talk to about that is JBL themselves, nothing like getting help than right from the source it self.
As far as the processors the DBX 460 just came out a few months ago, basicly its the same as the 480 it just a condensed version, and is only 1 rack space, both are probably the most sought after processors on the market right now, not to say the JBL 260 or 280 processors are any worse, their all pretty high quality processors. In the same way the DBX 460 is the smaller brother to the 480, the same is also true about the JBL 260 and its bigger bother the 280. The 280 has 2 ins and 8 outs which means it can do 4 way stereo, which would be usefull if you wanted to have the tops biamped, as well as have 15's and 18's for bottom end, so the 18's could be crossed over at a different point than the 18's. Also another possibility would be if you were triamping a 3 way top, consisting of a tweeter,horn and either a 12 ot 15 midrange, and then your normal subs for bottom, using up all 8 outs. The 260 on the other hand, at max can handel 3 way stereo (2 ins 6 outs). Athough all these processors can handel any configuration as long as it doesn`t exceed its number of outputs. ie the 260 with 6 outs can do, 3 way stereo, 2 way stereo, or 1-6 mono outputs. The other thing you can do is to link 2 processors togeather technicly doubling the outputs, ie if you wanted to do 4 stereo with 2 JBL 260, you would feed the left into 1 260, take your 4 outputs, and feed your right into the 2nd 260 and take your 3 outputs, so youre actually using 8 outs between the 2 processors. Now for your situation, you probably would need any more than 6 outs. As for the comments about buying each componets seperatly, don`t bother, people who say that haven`t seen the capablilities of one of these processors, it would take loads of gear and then some to get just some of the features that these high end processors offer. Although I say that , remember these processors are great tools for "controlling the PA", they control/manage the sound system, they do not replace out board gear, once their setup and set properly, they shouldn`t have to get touched. If the DJ,s want more control over the way it sounds then you can provide them with their own eq's and compressors to fool with, but the processor shouldn`t be played with after its set properly.
As I mentioned earlier, you get more power and clarity if you drive each component sepratley, not using the internal crossovers. Not to say you have to have 3 invidual boxes for each componet, you just by pass the internal crossover and go directly to the speaker. In the case of the Marquis series specificly, the MS 115, its already a 2 way box (1 horn, 1 15'), with its own crossover built in. You plug it up to an amp it will still work no problem and in the case of biamping you have the crossover sperate that 2 way box from the sub which you have another amp for. The problem with doing it this way is that internal crossover in MS 115 box is actually robing some of your power away, because that 1 amp has to drive both the horn and the 15' togeather, as well as you loose the ability to control what frequencies go to that component. If you tri-amp that system, you bypass that internal crossover which is now supplied by your processor, hense the other output, and you now power those individual componets each with their own amp ( 1 amp for the 15'S 1 amp for the horns, and 1 amp for the subs). So youre providing more power to those components, as well as cleaner power ( the 15' isn`t pulling power away from the horn and visa versa), as well as you get more control over those components deciding where to eactly to set those crossover points, as well as controlling what frequencies are going to those drivers, which gets into more control over level of compoments and EQing of those components. As far as matching power amps to speakers that a whole nother can of worms.
Best place to get more info on this kind of stuff, is http://www.prosoundweb.com/
Go to the Study Hall and read the PDF files, alot of great info.
Hope This Help,
soundguy_99

[soundguy_99]

Sorry, I just realized, I meant the DBX 260 not 460, sorry.
soundguy_99