Dealing With Frustration

[grachuss]

For anyone who works as a bouncer or manager this question is for you.

I just started working security at a different club about a month ago, this is an all ages club instead of the bar I was at. Our head of security was fired a week before I got there and now the media director has been placed in charge of security. Well we had a show a couple days ago where we get a few calls from patrons that were coming to the show that night, saying that one kid had it out for another and was going to stab him at the show. So when the potential victim arrives we let him know whats going on and he goes inside early (I guess he was also a guest of the opening band). When stab master shows up our supposed director of security tells him he cant come inside and if he stays she was going to call the police but fails to warn our door people. Then she tells me to go over to him and say the same thing, so I do as she asks and the guy refuses to leave. I let her know so she can call the cops but instead she just procrastinates about it and tells me to go back inside behind the barracades with another guy to catch the crowd surfers(it was a hardcore show).

In the middle of the opening band she pulls him out behind the barracades and sends him outside to "watch" stab master meanwhile people are crowd surfing three at time and about 50% of them are making it on to the stage and diving off back into the crowd, this is strictly prohibited. I had to deal with this until the main act came on and one of the bands friends was nice enough to give me a hand. At the end of the night the little punk is still outside waiting for his potential victim to come out front. So we quitley usher him out the back door to his car. Now my question, how in hell do I talk to my boss about this constructivley? I never had this problem at my last job, my bosses we top notch, I had grown accustom to it since it was my first gig as a bouncer. I want to go about this in the nicest way possible seeing as how she is a pretty nice person she just has no clue about how to run security, and she got my band a really sweet gig as an opener for a national act.

[ministry]

if she is a true manager she will listen to your concerns. seeing that she is still "green" with the front of house stuff maybe you should help her along and explain that if she say's she is calling the cops if the person does not leave and they don't, she is setting herself for many more head aches to come. i think she did the right thing in not letting in " stab master " if she had good info that he was trouble. if you are worried about weapons why don't you search on the way in to the club ? the police could have taken care of your front door problem in a second for you and your second guy could have stayed on stage with you. you also did a nice job in sending the victim out the back door to keep the two parties apart and avoid trouble. the fact that she got your band a gig should not enter into the equasion at all, she probally has a few questions about her new job so step up and take charge and share your wisdom and you never know it may turn out better than expected. good luck.mike

[Andrew]

This seems to be primarily a police matter, someone's life is being threatened so give it the focus it deserves and forget any percieved loyalties.

This is what I recommend ...forward all the call details, data and video on the matter to the police -- the sooner the better --.

Once the police start dealing with this matter then your boss will soon realise that the police are the Security Managers' allies. If not, she may eventually end up on the wrong side of the law.

This way, you don't have to confront her; circumstance will instead.

[Baudtender]

grachuss:

I'm going to come at you from a different direction...

Is there a written job description for the security position she
inherited? Are there written security policies and procedures?
Are there written training, qualification, skill improvement, and
performance review policies in place?

If not, seems like these would be the best things to suggest - if
you can do it in a constructive manner, she (or the next person
that gets the job) would probably be awfully grateful. On the
other hand, if she's going to grow in the business as a manager,
she needs to get her hands dirty in the security side. This is a
great opportunity for her, and if you grasp what I'm saying here
and can present it in a constructive manner, she may end up
being the best asset your security and service staff has by virtue
of this baptism by fire.

Pay attention:
The job she was hired for is diametrically opposed to
confrontation and sending away business. In that world, messy
details like fights and vomit and knives and abusive drunks are
someone else's problem.

It's really hard to do a job that ain't defined. Sometimes, a lack
of definition can kill a business, or get someone really hurt. That
should get the owner(s) attention - sometimes it doesn't until
it's too late.

There's a big difference between ignorance and stupidity.
Stupidity happens when you recognize but don't fix ignorance.
The evening you described could have easily ended up with a
shiv stuck in someone's lung. It could have been the lady in
charge of security, or a door man, or you - and it may not have
come from the "stab master." It happened due to ignorance,
and that's forgiveable, if YOU don't fix it fast, then count yourself
among the stupid.

Will Rogers once wrote "Everyone's ignorant, just in different
subjects." There's no shame in what happened, except if it isn't
addressed immediately.

Sometimes, the owner is ignorant or otherwise overwhelmed.
They need to be educated and motivated when your ass on on
the line. I don't pay my staff to take punches, and I reject the
notion that it's inevitable or "part of the job." If it happens, I
know I'm at fault because there's been a breakdown in hiring or
training. For whatever reason, you need to make this a problem
a priority to your top dog. Effective security doesn't happen
spontaneously, and prior experience is worth squat when
staff is handling a problem discordantly.

You need to sit down with the boss and say "Boss, we've got a
big problem, and I want to work with you to solve it before we
something horrible happens. Our security manager is in an
uncomfortable situation, we need to stop that, and it's an easy
fix."

"She's smart, you're smart, we can fix this. All of us want to fix
this, and the solution is as simple as a few sit-downs and some
written policies. This isn't about pointing fingers and bitching,
because we all really want this business to succeed - what do
you think?"

Read it all again, I'm being terse due to wretched necessity, but
it's all here - you find yourself in a position of necessary
diplomacy. And yours, or someone else's life may very well
depend upon how seriously you take this advice.

Baudtender

[Club Security]

Hello everyone,

This is a hot topic at every training session I give. To call the police or not to call the police? The wall between law enforcement is a high one and a strong one. Yes, many will say that you have a great relationship with your local cops. Perhaps you do, but remember, they have a job to do and will do it when they must. Anyway...

If the potential victim knew "Stab Master" was coming to the club to stab or kill him the victim is a true victim of a terrorist threat, a felony in every state. The law was designed for domestic violence victims but has been refined for all potential victims of violent crimes that could cause great bodily harm.

The police must be called with someone presents a credible threat to a customer or an employee. I have posted two threads over the past 8 months about a “Bouncer” being killed after removing a violent customer and not calling the police. Perhaps they won’t arrest him but they will certainly talk to him and get his name. This will ALWAYS prevent the bad guy from hiding in the bushes with a gun until the employee comes out.

This thought applies to any customer, male or female, that may have a major issue with another customer….such as Stab Master and the victim.

What if…. Customer gets stabbed. He is seriously injured or dies. Your staff knew about the threat and didn’t do what they should have. Talk about a huge chunk of liability. If an employee knows of a potential threat and addresses it inadequately, BOOM, the liability is on them and the club.

Good luck. You definitely need to let the boss; both of them read this thread. They will pick up a lot, from the necessity of policies and procedure manuals, continued training and calling the police for serious incidents.

Stay safe everyone,

Robert
Nightclub Security Consultants