Want to start a club in an year , but need some help!!

[punkyhunk69]

Hello everyone!
Am 23 yr old and I live in Michigan. I wanna start a Nightclub in year and year and a half in Ann arbor area. By then i'll have like 250,000 in hand.I've been to Many night clubs and i have a lotta DJ friends.But never worked in one. I also have a a Masters degree in business administration.!
But i have a problem here. Am not a Citizen of US. What exactly shd i do now?? Can i ask anyone to be the legal owner of the club or are there any risks involved in it???.
First of all is it suggestable for me to go into it???
Please I need some help...............

[excellentbars]

First and most important question that is needed before moving forward is...What country are you a citizen of?

If it is Canada..Then their is a law that states that if you invest a certain amount of money and have I recall 8 or more employees you can get US citisenship..

What country are you a citizen of?

[punkyhunk69]

Hi Chris,
Thanks for responding to my message!
Am not a citizen of Canada! AM citizen of India...
I know it not possible to Own it.
what exactly shd i do now??? There's no problem for me to give a legal ownership to somebody else! I asked my friend Marie, she said she has to think abt it.
But any risks involved? will Me or she get into any kindda trouble???
I need some questions to be answered ,before moving any further.
And also i dont think i need much of a loan? I might invest my own???
Is it risky????

[ministry]

just send me your money and i will take of everything.

[excellentbars]

ministry just send me your money and i will take of everything.

LOL Ministry

Punkyhunk69

Seriously you need to really think about this..Yes! you can be an investor, But different State and City regulations will require you to pass a background check.....
Yes owning an operating a Bar or Club can be very profitable and rewarding but their is risk involved and you should be aware of the risks and rewards...

Do you have an Idea of what you want to do this would help to begin answering many of your questions.....

Here are the most important questions to answer first.
1-What is Concept?
2-Where would you like the Location?
3-Do you want to open a Bar,Nightclub,Lounge,Restaurant/Bar

[punkyhunk69]

Hi Chris,

Am planning like.Opening 4 or 5 nights a week shd choose between Different music and different nites For example : Industrial nite,Raggae nite, Hip hop nite,Salsa nite,International nite,College nite,Gay nite, Club nite(performances by diff bands)
I wanna choose this depending upon the place where i wanna start, based on the demographics.

2nd thing is The Club is Lounge + Night club ,I wanna open it from 5 pm ,The dance and real music starts from 9.30 10.

As of now , i have 3 places in Mind
1 Lansing , Michigan
2 Ann arbor ,Michigan
3 Madison , Wisconsin

All the three places are college towns. where the university main campuses are in Downtowns. Lansing really needs a good club.There are too many clubs in Ann arbor.

Chris , if u have any thing in mind please lemme know. Am not stupid, I know i cant do it without the help of experienced people like u.

[excellentbars]

I know i cant do it without the help of experienced people like u.

Thanks Punkyhunk69

Lets look at what we have got here

All the three places are college towns. where the university main campuses are in Downtowns. Lansing really needs a good club.There are too many clubs in Ann arbor.

I Owned the Bar of the year in 2002 Library Bar and grill in Tempe AZ. I also ownered a nightclub a few years before that in Tempe AZ..

My advise is for you in a college town to run with the flow and go after that crowd...You can still have a kick ass club atmosphere like we did at the Library with DJ's, Band's and Entertainment.. But I would not trap myself into being Nightclub.....
I would recommend a Bar format with dancing and DJ's and Band's You just need to have a good program putting the concept and formating the systems to create something new and positive for the area that you choose.

I am planning to be open 4 or 5 nights a week and will choose between Different music and different nights For example : Industrial night, Reggae night, Hip hop night,International night,College night, Club night (DJ's), Band'sperformances by diff bands

This is the format for a good Bar in a college area....Add in the staff, theme, Good location and some good bar food and you have a great college bar....

This is only the beginning.....

Choosing the location comes first.....This is the most important part of the project

As of now , i have 3 places in Mind
1 Lansing , Michigan
2 Ann arbor ,Michigan
3 Madison , Wisconsin


It is time to do research....

[punkyhunk69]

Well thats an excellent Idea, Chris.
So for this kindda college bars which is the best Open-time??
From 12 clk in the after noon wld be good???

So i dont need to worry about Ownership and stuff???
DO u want me to go ahead and prepare a business plan for it??
Am currently on H1 Visa , am currently workin in IT field in a Leading company!
I know on my Visa i can start a business which is related to my work! Like i can
start an IT consulting company or an outsourcing company but not a bar!

[Josh2001]

Well thats an excellent Idea, Chris.
So for this kindda college bars which is the best Open-time??
From 12 clk in the after noon wld be good???

So i dont need to worry about Ownership and stuff???
DO u want me to go ahead and prepare a business plan for it??
Am currently on H1 Visa , am currently workin in IT field in a Leading company!
I know on my Visa i can start a business which is related to my work! Like i can
start an IT consulting company or an outsourcing company but not a bar!

Chris will probably have a different take on this, as he has had more experience than me.

Ownership is important, if I were you I would look into trying to get a US green card(I'm from Australia myself, so I would have no clue about how you would go about this). Or if your friend Marie agrees to help you out you can always just be an investor in a company, I don't believe that there are any laws regarding being an offshore investor.

Info on getting a green card, always worth applying, what harm can it do?
US Immigration - Green Card Info (http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=5993da568324e010VgnVCM1000000ecd190aRCR D&vgnextchannel=4f719c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1 RCRD)

Might be worthwhile to look into taxable transactions going in and out of the united states, and you may need to pay a duty on any monies leaving the country, assuming you will be moving the money to a bank account back in India? I'm not from the United States so I have no experience in the banking system and the laws governing that over there.

A business plan is something you need to decide on doing yourself, if you believe that you are ready to do something, then you should go ahead and do it. No-body else can tell you when you are ready. Even if you do not decide to setup the bar now at least you will have the business plan drawn up for when you are ready to do it. It's always worthwhile doing if you have the time, energy and resources to complete. and at least your idea's are down on paper. Hell, if you don't decide to do it you can always sell the business plan :P


The H-1B is a non-immigrant visa category in the United States under the Immigration & Nationality Act, section 101(a)(15)(H). It allows U.S. employers to seek temporary help from skilled foreigners who have the equivalent U.S. Bachelor's Degree education. H-1B employees are employed temporarily in a job category that is considered by the U.S. Citizenship & Immigration Services to be a "specialty occupation." A specialty occupation is one that requires theoretical and practical application of a body of specialized knowledge along with at least a bachelor’s degree or its equivalent. For example, architecture, engineering, mathematics, physical sciences, social sciences, medicine and health, education, business specialties, accounting, law, theology, and the arts may be considered to be specialty occupations.

I believe that is what you are currently holding?

Just found this in regards to it, not sure whether this information is 100% accurate, but it's worth looking up on.



If you are working currently in US on a H1-B visa, You CAN start a business (a C corp) just like any other, as long as YOU DO NOT work for that company. You can only work for the company that sponsored your H1B and only the kind of work specified in the petition. There is no deviation of any kind to this rule.

However, you can establish a company and appoint a director or CEO to run your business. For someone who is just starting the Entrepreneurial dream, it is a serious obstacle. But, the positive side of it is you don't have to kill your dreams or delay. You 'can' participate in some restricted activities of the business, in the role of investor, but certainly not of executive nature.

This info was from http://www.startupnation.com/forums/707/2/1
(Sorry if posting that link wasn't allowed, feel free to remove)

Hope that helps somewhat.

[Michael Black]

At the very least:

1) research the potential markets and locations and understand the specific laws of the city you choose. You should probably start your first one near where you live and have immediate access.

2) create a business plan to at the very least understand all aspects and numbers of what is involved.

3) speak to a good lawyer

4) speak with a good accountant

5) Hire a very experienced person to help you start and run it

Most people think that the owner on paper or on the license or the person most in the newspaper is the owner . The truth is the owner is the person who receives the most profits and has the control measures over the business and license.They may not be the legal owner on City documents, but it's their bar or club. There are 1000's of businesses with wife's who own the liquor license and are never there, or brothers,cousins,etc..Many policemen and firemen own bars even though many cities have laws against them or city workers owning a liquor license. There are also Power of Attorney Laws that you may be able to use to exercise power over the actual operators. Perhaps you will have a computer or POS system in the bar and the llc or c-corp will need to hire a consultant and there are no laws that can say how much you can charge and what they can accept. I've seen silent owners own and rent back audio and gaming equipment for extremely high fees. This also took down the income and taxes on the businessness since it was treated as a legitimate expense. The company could also loan you money. There are many ways to get around your problems. You may be able to invest to some degree in the llc or c-corporation.

All I m saying is that a good lawyer and accountant can help you in creative ways that are perfectly legal, so consult with them before investing anything.

God Luck!

Mike

[excellentbars]

Josh and Mike Great Posts Lots of good information...


Punky

I have a friend in Vegas now who is a Canadian Citizen and She has done extensive research into how to become a US citisen...We have discussed numberous ways and business ideas..She likes the Bar industry and here is what I know..

After consulting with her Immigration Attorney she can get a perffered status to US citizenship by opening a business and there is a dollar value to the investment and a number of US citizens that need to be employed full time for the business.

1- I would hire a Immigration Attourney "SLIME BAG" Sorry :D

2- I would Formulate a small business plan that you will need anyway im sure...for the lawyer and the business

3- I would find, hire or partner with an expert before you spend any money or waste your time.

I would rather have you give Josh2001 or Mike $10,000 then have them kick you in balls as hard as they can............. :eek:

Than have you lose $250,000 :D You will thank me later!

This will help you to expidite the business and establish a platform of legitimacy to the Landlord, City, Investors if needed, Liquor lic officals, Police

[punkyhunk69]

Hey Josh,
Thanks for Digging up the information about H1 B. I really appreciate that....
I have a masters degree in Information systems,Its actually a business major ,
Like how to start an IT company, what kindda projects shd we accept, what kindda things shd be outsourced etc...and deals with lotta shit
Am applying for green card by end of this year!. It will prolly take like 4 -5 years.
But i dont think i can waite that long to start.

So are u an Australian citizen??? Do u own any clubs Here??

Hey Mike,
Thanks for the Information! You really doubled my confidence.
I'll go ahead and prepare Business plan.and then talk to a lawer!
what kindda lawer shd i approach for this kindda thing?

[Josh2001]

I'm an Australian citizen, yes. I have owned a bar and two nightclubs in Melbourne and Sydney. However I sold the last one a few years ago. Haven't really gone and taken a look at them. They were profitable when I was running them however I know one of the nightclubs went down the drain a year or so after I sold it.

I'm about to start planning out my fourth project down here soon (within the next 5 years. Ill be travelling to Europe and the States to get some design ideas and to see whats hot)

Good luck with the green card application mate.

[punkyhunk69]

Hey CHris,
She got American Citizenship for starting a business and giving full time Employment to AMerican citizenship??? Thats sounds Very interesting...!

Thanks Chris you guy almost got me some things clear!!!!.and also thanks to Mike and josh for ur help.

Have one more question to you. Does llc saves us from Bankrupcy???
what if go into Losses??
But i still have a job which pays me 100,000 - 120,000per year.I know its not too much!.. even tho can i survive the blow????

I mean i shd think of every possibility right......

[punkyhunk69]

Hey Josh,
Thats really Awesome to own two clubs :)
Do u have American citizenship to start business here???
I bet u'll succeed here cause u have lotta experience in it.
All u have to look for is happening trendz.....

[excellentbars]

Hey CHris,
She got American Citizenship for starting a business and giving full time Employment to AMerican citizenship??? Thats sounds Very interesting...!

I have a call into her and am waiting for her to give me the exact details



Have one more question to you. Does llc saves us from Bankrupcy???
what if go into Losses??
But i still have a job which pays me 100,000 - 120,000per year.I know its not too much!.. even tho can i survive the blow????

Punky... an LLC does protect you personaly from liability, But as far as Bankrupcy they have recently changed the laws in the States and You would need to consult a lawyer.....In some instances you will need to make a Personal Guarantee.....and the LLC will not cover you.....


I mean i shd think of every possibility right

This is correct....I will be posting some topics on how to start a business planthese should be helpfull......

[Josh2001]

A Limited Liability Company (LLC), becuase of it's structure and legal obligations protects the owner(s) from any personal liability if the company fails. Which means(in Australia anyway) that you are only liable for the amount of capital you invest into the business. So if there are 3 partners each partner is responsible for their market share of the business.

But if what Chris has said about the laws changing is true, then I might need to investigate whats happening with those laws over here myself before I start anything. The above was what I learned back in school years ago.

But an LLC is certainly the way to go. You won't employ enough people to be a PC(Public Company), Using a Partnership or Sole Trader structure is just as bad. Go with the LLC structure.

Myself? I do not have an American Citizenship. If I was to start something in the states I would have to find someone to run it for me and be an offshore investor. I hold both an Australian and British Citizenship.

[Michael Black]

punkyhunk69

You will want a good business lawyer who knows limited liability corps and contracts, but also a local who has experience dealing with liquor licenses and the liquor control board in the city you pan to open in. Nice 6 figure job to fall back on!

Ps- I'll only charge you $9000 to kick your balls in! Actually the way I feel now, I'll pay you 9 bucks so you'll end up with $250,009 :)

[excellentbars]

Ps- I'll only charge you $9000 to kick your balls in! Actually the way I feel now, I'll pay you 9 bucks so you'll end up with $250,009

Mike Don't be so cheap! a good kick in the balls is hard to come by these days. :p

[punkyhunk69]

Hello Mike,

Did u have any problems with Police or Customers anytime???


Vince

[Michael Black]

I PM'd you, check your messages.

We all have problems with police and customers from time to time. Not sure what you are getting at. I have little problems with the police as I believe in running a bar or club on the up and up. We also use off duty policemen as head of security which covers you in more ways than one in any incident and they can deal with fellow police officers better than anyone else. Customer problems for the most part are usually dealt effectively with years of customer service experience. Problem children are cooled, tamed, or removed easily with the correct security tactics. Often, the real hard heads ease up real quickly when they realize our head of security is a policeman who can arrest him immediatey.

[punkyhunk69]

Hello Mike,
Sorry for the Late reply.
I did'nt know we can hire Off duty cops! That rules....As u said that takes care of lotta problems!
How much do they charge per hour??? Is it possible to Hire cops in every state?
I just checked ur emails

[excellentbars]

Hey Punky

In AZ I have had to hire off duty uniformed police for special events and they have run from $45 to $65 per hour depending on many factors....

I have hired a Police offficer to work on the weekends out of uniform and paid him $18-$20 per hour...He was good but often I would rather have hired 2 guards for the price of him......Depends on the officer..This guy was there to get laid!!!!!!! Name a security gaurd that Isn't :rolleyes:

[intensity]

Hello Mike,
Sorry for the Late reply.
I did'nt know we can hire Off duty cops! That rules....As u said that takes care of lotta problems!
How much do they charge per hour??? Is it possible to Hire cops in every state?
I just checked ur emails


This varies greatly by city. Some cities or police departments forbid their officers to moonlight in security positions for obvious liability reasons. Check with your local police department.

[Michael Black]

Each city varies in its laws, but most are very similar, restricting it. In Chicago, a police officer cannot directly own a liquor license or be involved in the serving of liquor. Even with security as a second job, most get paid in cash 15-$25 hour, so they don't really exist on paper. However, some really good ones have gotten a flat rate gig of $150-$200 for only the prime 3-5 hours at the bar or club. The average security person gets paid about $10/hr. There are plenty of cops that are lazy looking for the easy second buck. You need someone who is going to be proactive, help manage the rest of security, and really work with you on covering your ass.

[punkyhunk69]

Hey Chris ,
18 - 20 is not tooo much i guess. Having a cop as security has its own advantages...What ever might be the reason! Its advantage for him tooo in both ways Money + Chicks.

Hello Mike,
That sucks that Chicago is police is not allowed to work as security.
But its kindda kool have them work for cash! is there any kindda risk involved in have them for cash for us?? Where shd we find these Cops???
I heard Chicago police are real bad!!! is that True?. 15-20 $ is reasonable rate.
Wats the avg pay for bartenders ,waitress,Djs and other staff in Chicago? In michigan waitress get paid like 3 or 4 per hour ,rest they make on tips.

[Michael Black]

They can work as security as far as I know and I don't know of any particular law or ordinance against it. But, they cannot own a liquor license or be involved in the service of liquor. However, the City and Fraternal Order of Police probably frown on this as a second job, so most want to be paid in cash besides the tax factor. The ones I have worked with are a little older and married and while they certainly check out the ladies, they are there to do their job. You usually find them from talking to beat cops, but I already know of several good ones at one bar so, I would ask them or their recommended friends/ fellow officers. Their are good cops and bad cops and a whole lot of good cops that occcasionally do bad things. But their are good and bad people in all walks of life. The cop could just be there- there is no proof of anything with cash so not much risk. Of course, you need your regular staff and employees on payroll.

Bartenders usually get $5-7.50 + tips but with a ton of applicants, many just pay the min as with waitstaff which just got raised to $4.50/hr + tips. Min wage is now $7.50 in ILL and we are allowed a 40% tip credit, thus the $4.50 min for bartenders, barbacks, and waitstaff. However, many hotels have the union to deal with and they must pay around $10-11 + tips. Dj's can vary widely from a flat $100 to many thousands for a mega dj. Decent locals probably average $25/hr and top locals with a follwing probably get closer to $50/hr or $200-400/night.