POS conundrum - HELP!

[emillika]

I am in need of a POS and have been running into systems that are heavily/solely geared towards bar/restaurants or retail. My issue it that my format is a hybird wine store by day/wine bar & food at night.

Can any one recommend a system that might work well for both? I talked with SoftTouch per Scott1988's notes on this site but they don't see them being able to offer me much in the way of retail support.

Idea's? Experiences?

Thanks.

[scott1988]

Sorry about the recommendation but why wouldn't Softtouch work? Do you have more than 1 million pieces of inventory? Basically you would just setup your retail inventory items the same way you would setup your food or beverage items and touch the item every time you sold one. Softtouch can keep track of this no different than any other retail based software system. How large of an operation are you talking about? How many different types and amounts of inventory for the retail part are you looking to carry? Can you give us a little more information? There may be a couple other systems that may work for you as well but without the information, it may be tough.

Sorry to make you go through the work of discussing what you've probably already discussed with a few companies but it is important to make a good recommendation. Just so you know though, you're not the only one to want to run a food and beverage establishment but also be sort of a retail store at the same time. Look at Cracker Barrel, Cheesecake Fatory, or even Hooters for that matter. They have all incorporated retail into their operations and we're not talking about 5, 10, or even 100 different items to keep track of. We're talking about 1000's of items per store and that's a lot.

[emillika]

I am not sure why they told me that wasn't their forte but that's what they said?

My store will carry no more than 1,000 sku's (and that's a high estimate). Most items will be various wines, accessories, cheeses, artisan meats, etc. To be honest I wasn't sure if Hooters et. al. use off the shelf systems that are readily available to people like me or if they have highly customized or home-grown systems.

Oh, and I really appreciated reading your posts and system reviews. It really helped me get going in the right direction.

Thanks.

Elmer

[BeverageTracker]

Try checking out the Microsoft Retail Management System. I have no idea if it would work or not, but it has a very strong retail side and has some add on programs that do touch screen items quite well. If you to any type of table service where you have to leave tickets open or take tips, it won't work very well. Just an idea.

[scott1988]

Yeah Bev Tracker,
I was also involved with Microsoft RMS as well and athough it was pretty good for retail stores (small 1 store operations to large 1000 store operations), it would not take care of table service at all as you have stated. So the RMS idea is not going to work.

Emillika,
I'm not sure why they told you that. Are you talking with a dealer in your area or the actual company (Softtouch) itself? Although Softtouch is geared more toward restaurant and bar settups, as I stated, you could use it for some retail items as well with little or even NO problems. You can set up retail items the same way you would set up a menu item in the POS system. I know this sounds a little confusing now (as with me it always is) but I could try to explain it as simply as I can and maybe you'll have a better understanding of what I mean.

When you set up a menu item (any menu item) in the system, you have to go to an area or setup screen that lets you put in all sorts of information about the particular item. In this case, whether it's a hamburger, cup of soup, glass of wine, bottle of beer, t-shirt, bottle of wine, cigar, soda pop, earings, hairbrush, toilet paper, or whatever else...it doesn't matter. You can put whatever description into the system that you want in the description box.

Then, you can assign it a certain tax rate based on what type of item it is. You can even assign it different tax rates and multiple tax rates per item and I'll use our city as an example.

Our state tax rate is: 4% for any goods or products sold in our state. Our city municipal tax rate used to be 0.92% but is now raised to 1.92% (I believe) for everthing sold from a retail business. It's also 1% for alcohol and eating establishments as well if I remember correctly. So, if I sold a bottle of beer in our city at $3.00 a bottle the taxes would break down like this:

$3.00 - bottle of beer
$0.12 - (4% state tax)
$0.03 - (1% alcohol / eating establishment tax)
$0.06 - (1.92% city municipal tax) (rounded up from $0.0576)
-------------
$3.21 - Total

Or if you sold a t-shirt at our bar, the cost would break down like this:

$18.00 - (t-shirt price)
$0.72 - (4% state tax)
$0.00 - (1% alcohol / eating establishment tax)
$0.35 - (1.92% city municipal tax) (rounded up from $0.3456)
--------------
$19.07 - Total

(In the last example, we did NOT pay the 1% tax because it was considered a retail item that was NOT alcohol or food. I believe that even though it's sold in an eating establishment, as long as it's not alcohol or food, we do NOT have to pay the 1% city tax) Make sure you check with your state and city regarding how this would be handled.

Anyway, you get the idea I hope.

Moving on, now that you've set up your item in your system and figured out its tax rate or rates, you can now decide where you want the item to be so that you can access it from the touchscreen and sell it. I won't get into all of these details because it will vary on how you would want your system set up but you essentially could have all of your menu items in the system as it would normally appear and then have a button labeled "retail" or "non-food/alchohol" items. You could call it whatever you want. Once you would press that button, a new screen would appear (sort of like a menu) but it would have all of your non-food items on it that you want to sell as retail. Or whatever. Anyway, all you would have to do is touch the item on the screen (button) and it would ring up just like anything else. If you have a lot of items (in your case let's just say 1000), you would have multiple pages or menu categories to choose from based on where you wanted the item. Again, whatever would make sense to you so you can access it easy and fast. It will ring up food and alcohol items correctly and non-food or alcohol items on the same ticket if needed. Such as the example above with maybe 2 meals, 5 drinks, a couple t-shirts, and a bottle of wine for home. After they've paid and you've completed the sale, the item would be deducted from inventory, if you've got it set up that way in the setup part of the program. You don't have to set up inventory if you don't want to. You could just have a printout of what you've sold at the end of the day, week, month, year or whatever. It's all up to you in what you're more comfortable with.

I will say that when it comes to inventory, everybody wants it in this industry but only about 10% of the people use it in the POS system. It's not that it doesn't work (because they do WHEN SET UP CORRECTLY), it's just that most people don't want to do away with their own system that they've been using for years or keep up with inputting the correct information into the POS system when they get their inventory (items/goods) in the back door. It's really no different than any other system but it's a mind thing. People generally assume that inventory automatically works itself but it's not that way whether it's a restaurant, bar, convenience store, or Wal-Mart for that matter. You still have to put "into" the system what you want to get "out" of it. Make sense? If it were me, I would learn and understand how to use inventory in the POS system because you're going to save yourself so much time in not have to repeat your time doing it twice for some other way. It's just more efficient but that's just me. I like technology.

In youre situation however, where you want to be sort of a retail store/restaurant, you may want to utilize the inventory part of the system. That will be up to you. But just so you know, it can do it no different than Microsoft RMS, it's just not quite as in depth and detailed as Microsoft RMS would be because RMS is designed specifically with retail only (no food or alcohol or table service sales) in mind. But please don't think that a POS system wouldn't work in your situation because it could.

Anyway, rather than go on and on (like I always do), we could talk more about this if you have more questions. I'm more than happy to keep going, I just don't want to bore you or anyone reading this.

As far as Hooters goes, no they don't have a "custom" designed POS system nor do they use an "off-the-shelf" system. I think they use Micros if I remember right but a few stores might actually use one POS system and a few might use a different one (although I would doubt it). They may have asked for a few modifications or additions written into the software for their particular operation but that's only because they have 100 stores or more nationwide and would be willing to pay the extra $30k, $40k, or $50k it would cost to have that custom programming built in to their original software settup. But by no means would they have had a software designed for them from the ground up. Hooters aren't "that" big ---Like that?????? (no pun intended).

Complete "custom" POS software programs cost 100's of thousands, if not even millions of dollars to create and produce. Plus, maintain.

Don't worry. What you're asking for can be accomplished for a few thousand so don't freak out. We'll help you get there. Let's hear some more definitive questions. As you can see by my many, many, many books I've written on here, I've got "nothin' but time".

----One more thing------
Here's the link to the Softtouch brochure (just in case you didn't have it already):
http://www.softtouchpos.com/webSoftTouchCatalog.pdf

I just thought I would mention that it says on the last page that you can barcode retail items, do stock inventory, and scan retail items in the checks if need be so I don't know why you were told that it wouldn't handle your operation. Unless you've got some unique requests that we don't know about. Of course it's not designed for a big hardware store with 100,000's of PLU's or a Target or Wal-Mart type of operation but it should take care of your needs. Again, unless you've got something really unique.

I hoped this helped some.

[emillika]

I talked to them directly and it didn't seem right.. I will call back and see if I get the answer I am looking for. :) I referenced that note about bar coding retail items and the lady seemed confused.

I assume I could also use a bar code scanner (for items with bar codes of course) to pull up items and not have to use the touch screen "tree" to find items. Technology is in my blood (nearly 20 years in IT) so I would opt to use it the POS to it's fullest. I do not have any existing processes to convert so I could set it up "right" the first time.

Thank you for your time. I will call back to get the details for downloading their trial version.

Elmer

[scott1988]

Cool. Emillika, I tried to send you a message but for some reason I can't figure out how to do that anymore.

What gives admin????

Anyway, yes, the idea is that you could have a guest bring up a bottle of wine that already has a label on it (I presume you're purchasing wine and product from outside vendors that label their products with bar codes and you're not actually making the products yourselves and therefore would have to label the products appropriately with bar codes), if it has a bar code you would just simply scan it with a bar code scanner (roughly $75 to $200) and it would ring into the pos system. Then you could simply cash out or close the sale by closing out the ticket and paying however they need to pay you.

I don't know what the confusion is. Hmmmmm. I'm sorry you're having so much trouble with this. It's not that difficult. And I'm glad to hear that you're actually "savvy".

[Michael Black]

Scott, just click on the user name and scroll down to "send a private message" and click on that. With the new software update, if you go to a user's profile, you can leave a "visitor message". I am not a fan of those because they are not private and some members confuse them with the pm/private messages.

[scott1988]

Scott, just click on the user name and scroll down to "send a private message" and click on that. With the new software update, if you go to a user's profile, you can leave a "visitor message". I am not a fan of those because they are not private and some members confuse them with the pm/private messages.


Yah but I tried to contact this person that way and they don't have that option. When I scroll over their name, there is not option to send a private message. What the "F"? What gives??????

[Michael Black]

Sorry, but because of problems with spam and other site's preying on our members, all new posts by NEW MEMBERS ONLY must be moderated and screened. Once you have posted I think 20 times and have become somewhat of a safe regular, you then will be able to pm. We apologize for any inconvenience, but if you knew what we deal with on a daily basis and the amount of improper posts that would dominate the forum if we did not do this, you would understand. Stick around, contribute in a positive manner, and you will soon have the pm option. Good to have you as a member,thanks.

[scott1988]

I get it. Smart on your part.

Yeah, we want people that are at least going to contribute if possible. Too bad there wasn't an area other than "introduce yourself" that you could go to when your new that you could contact people and vice versa.

But I understand why you're doing it. You're right, I don't know what you go through but I get enoughspam and crap on my personal email that I couldn't even begin to try to imagine what you go through. I'm sure it sucks.

Come on newbies, post....post....post. We want to hear from you and help you.

----"Hurray for newbies"------lol.....lol....lol

[emillika]

I don't know what the confusion is. Hmmmmm. I'm sorry you're having so much trouble with this. It's not that difficult. And I'm glad to hear that you're actually "savvy".

:confused: Whatever that "savvy" comment means. I think you need to take a reading comprehension class. I don't really mean that but WTF is the reason for throwing out a jab like that? I will gladly pit my pure technical skills against yours any day of the week.. not necessarily in this particularly narrow field but in telecommunications, network engineering, anti-fraud/money laundering, file and data encryption, .... Not that I really give a rats ass about degrees but I do have a Masters degree from Northwestern a top school in the country.

[scott1988]

Emillika,
Take it easy please. I was actually giving you a really good compliment.

"Savvy" means good in my opinion at computers. When someone says: "are you computer savvy" or "computer literate", it means you know what you're doing. Which is what I'm assuming you do. I was saying "good job" and not taking a "good jab" (no pun intended).

Here's what it means taken from the online dictionary:
sav·vy (sv) Informal
adj. sav·vi·er, sav·vi·est
Well informed and perceptive; shrewd: savvy Washington insiders.
n.
Practical understanding or shrewdness: a banker known for financial savvy.
tr. & intr.v. sav·vied (svd), sav·vy·ing, sav·vies (svz)
To understand; comprehend.

You stated that you said you wanted to use the POS to its fullest and are have about 20 years of experience so, I assumed that you would be able to handle some of the technical issues that one might encounter with a POS system. This is a huge advantage for you because you'll be miles ahead of the normal POS owner that just simply "wants it to work". You'll understand how to make it work for you to its fullest.

That's a good thing. I was giving you a compliment.

When I mentioned that I was sorry to hear that you were having trouble with this, I never actually meant "you" in particular. I meant that you were having trouble with the POS company. I don't know why they're confused about this because it's not uncommon. This is something that they can do unless there is some special way that you want to do this or some certain question(s) that you may have asked them and not us on the board that I don't know about. From what I've read so far, I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to accomplish what you want with the system. At least initially anyway. Again, maybe there was something I missed but many POS systems will do table service, bar service, and retail transactions all in the same system just fine. Again, you're not Target or Wal-Mart but it should take care of your needs.

Sorry you misunderstood my "compliment". That's what I meant by "savvy".

And I'm sorry I haven't been able to contact you Emillika. Apparantly, they changed the way the forums worked (which is actually a good thing) and now new members have to post at least 20 times before you can PM back and forth. As soon as you hit that number, shoot me a PM and we'll talk.

[Michael Black]

The problem with typed words is that sometimes the message can get lost in translation ans taken a different way than what the writer intended. I can only suggest clarification before assuming someone's position. With a masters from Northwestern, surely you can understand and appreciate this.

Now back to the topic at hand.

It seems to me that most good resturant & bar pos software should handle the retail items. But, if you have the money and really want something special for each area, may be you can dedicate 1 station for the retail with specific retail software and another 1-2 for the wine bar sales with another software, thus seperating the 2 problems each with its' own solution.

[scott1988]

Yeah that's true Michael but really, there should be no reason to do what you've mentioned UNLESS this really is a unique situation. Again, I'm assuming here but there are probably 6 to 8 POS companies that should be more than capable of handling this fairly easily. Again the key word is "should".

Sure, I'm assuming, but why separate them and possibly create more paperwork/bookwork for the accountant or manager when they could have this done with one system? I see what Michael is saying but it would just seem like more work to me that's all.

Also, in no way was I putting the dictionary defintion of "savvy" on here to be a smart a**. I was just putting it on here for "clerification". Again, just thinking you've got an advantage by having computer knowledge. Congrats to you. ;)

[emillika]

Emillika,
Take it easy please. I was actually giving you a really good compliment.

"Savvy" means good in my opinion at computers. When someone says: "are you computer savvy" or "computer literate", it means you know what you're doing. Which is what I'm assuming you do. I was saying "good job" and not taking a "good jab" (no pun intended).

Here's what it means taken from the online dictionary:
sav·vy (sv) Informal
adj. sav·vi·er, sav·vi·est
Well informed and perceptive; shrewd: savvy Washington insiders.
n.
Practical understanding or shrewdness: a banker known for financial savvy.
tr. & intr.v. sav·vied (svd), sav·vy·ing, sav·vies (svz)
To understand; comprehend.

You stated that you said you wanted to use the POS to its fullest and are have about 20 years of experience so, I assumed that you would be able to handle some of the technical issues that one might encounter with a POS system. This is a huge advantage for you because you'll be miles ahead of the normal POS owner that just simply "wants it to work". You'll understand how to make it work for you to its fullest.

That's a good thing. I was giving you a compliment.

When I mentioned that I was sorry to hear that you were having trouble with this, I never actually meant "you" in particular. I meant that you were having trouble with the POS company. I don't know why they're confused about this because it's not uncommon. This is something that they can do unless there is some special way that you want to do this or some certain question(s) that you may have asked them and not us on the board that I don't know about. From what I've read so far, I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to accomplish what you want with the system. At least initially anyway. Again, maybe there was something I missed but many POS systems will do table service, bar service, and retail transactions all in the same system just fine. Again, you're not Target or Wal-Mart but it should take care of your needs.

Sorry you misunderstood my "compliment". That's what I meant by "savvy".

And I'm sorry I haven't been able to contact you Emillika. Apparantly, they changed the way the forums worked (which is actually a good thing) and now new members have to post at least 20 times before you can PM back and forth. As soon as you hit that number, shoot me a PM and we'll talk.

I am sincerely sorry and regret that I didn't take the time to ascertain what you meant... again sorry and thanks for your guidance so far.

Take care.

[scott1988]

No problem. Have you gotten this figured out so far or do you have some other questions?

If you're able to PM me, please do so when you have time. If you've reached the 20 post minimum.

(Come on admin.....maybe make it only 10 please)

[condray]

Just a general question (trying to get that post count up)...

Outside of Softtouch, what are the top POS systems? Estimate prices?

I'm looking at having a 2 POS system (1 for the bartender, 1 elsewhere for servers)

[scott1988]

Well,
I've covered this question I think a few times on here by writing books (literally). Do a search if you can and it should pull up your questions about different POS systems.

For the most part, the hardware and software for a 2 station settup with it connected to your existing back office computer will run you between $8k and $9k. Add in some time for programming, installation, training, and support for a few months, and you're looking at another $1500 to $2k. So total, you'll be looking at between $10k and $11k for a 2 station settup. Sure, there are cheaper ones out there and you may be able to get hardware a little cheaper as well but I'm giving you examples based on a dealer which is more than likely what you'll want to use.

As far as "the top" POS systems, I've mentioned them as well but the most popular is Micros and then Digital Dining, Aloha, and Maitre D. Next right now is probably Future POS, Aldelo, Restaurant Manager (ASI), Aldelo (previously NexPOS), Softtouch, and maybe Pixel Point.

I personally wouldn't even bother with Aloha anymore myself just because of their costs when it comes to purchasing and repurchasing when needed. Plus, they aren't as easy to use as everyone claims but a lot of this has to do with the settup of the system to begin with (see my thread about settup of your POS/cash register system). Same goes for Micros POS systems. There have been so many great POS systems created in the last 5 to 10 years that the "big dogs" are just more expensive and not necessarily "better". Just because they've been around longer and cost more does not guarantee a better product.

One thing to keep in mind regarding price and which one really is "better" is that they all are very similar but do have a few things that set each one apart and you may find that one will work just a little better for you or make more sense to you. In the end, this is where the pricing will fluctuate dramatically because some of the POS software companies start their first station license price at $2500 to $3000 and the second at around $1500 to $2000 just for the software alone. Others may only be $900 to $1250 per station for the first 2 licenses (or even less) so you could get a 2 station software license for less than a 1 station software license from some POS companies. It all depends. Also, some companies will "force" you to use their hardware (....cough........Micros.......cough.....Aloha), where the other ones, will "allow" (although they don't recommend, you can do it) you to use just about whatever hardware you want as long as it can run with a Windows based operating system that's Windows 2000, XP, or Vista. That's what's great about these other POS software companies I mentioned because you're not held to only 1 option when it comes to hardware. This helps when repairing or upgrading your system(s).

Other than that, I really stress the importance of setting them up properly NO MATTER WHICH ONE YOU CHOOSE because it can really suck if you've got it set up poorly and this isn't the POS systems fault. Recently, I've been involved with a few different places that have one or both of the top 3 or 4 POS systems I've mentioned but it was so "user unfriendly" that it's just frustrating. Part of this blame is the fault of the POS company because they originally set it up that way (not good and a no-no) but the larger blame now needs to be placed on the business itself for not changing it but that's another story (again see my thread).

Take care.

[Sam_mrofcza]

We use Aldelo in one of our bars, and as scott1988 was saying i think its a good system but in my case was never set up right from the start. In either case POS systems are great for tracking purposes, both on the finance side as well as the physical inventory side. My advise is to take you time, set them up correctly, and try not to get frustrated. As for Aldelo its a good system that has good customer support (at an annual fee of $500) and as scott1988 said its one of those systems that allows you to use just about any windows based PC. However as for the retail i don't think it will work you.

I do have one question for you emillika, about how much of your business is retail and how much of it is the bar/food? I guess where im headed with this is the same direction that Mr. Black suggested. If you can identify where the majority of your business is taking place maybe then you can devote a major POS system to that end (utilizing all the reports and tracking) and the perhaps the other side apply a little less technology, and a little more pen and paper tracking. Again just a thought. Good luck either way.

[scott1988]

Condray and Emillika,
Have you got your questions answered? As I mentioned, Softtouch should be able to take care of your retail side of the business but Future POS would definately be one to look into as well. Both of these systems should run you roughly $3.5k to $4k per station and another $1000 to $1500 for training.

Again, research your options and take your time to set it up "CORRECTLY". This will help you so much in the long run. You may think that some things are tedious now but later on when you're saying to yourself, "I wish I would've done this", you'll be thanking yourself for doing so.

Keep us posted folks.

[condray]

Yes, thank you very much Scott. I've actually contacted several POS system companies and they're all jumping at the chance to show me their equipment. The only problem is that they won't outright tell me the costs, and that really pisses me off. At this point in my research, I'm looking for costs, not necessarily demonstrations.

For what I'm doing, I'm just going to estimate high and hope I can find a way to save when it comes time to purchase.

[BostonDave]

Em - Ive never used Restaurant Pro Express (RPE) by PCAmerica but I think it is cheap and seems to def do what you need.

http://www.pcamerica.com/restaurant_POS_screen_shots.htm


From their site:
If your restaurant sells t-shirts, mugs or other retail products, they can be rung up from any POS terminal by using a button for the item on the menu or scanning the bar code on the item.


Items are configured within Restaurant Pro Express in the same interface that menu items are created – the main difference in process is the UPC number would be assigned as

[scott1988]

The problem with most, and almost all, POS companies is that they are very similar to a car dealership in that they need to ask you what your needs are BEFORE they tell you how much a vehicle is.

It's like saying you "NEED" a vehicle that can tow a 10,000 pound camper or boat but only have $3000 to spend. Well, a minivan or small car is sure as heck not going to be able to haul what you need. On the other hand, if you tell them that your just looking for something that is front wheel drive and a four door, then you've got tons of choices. But, the dealership now needs to help you narrow down your choices to particular vehicles.

No different for a POS company to figure out "exactly" (or at least as best as they possibly can) what it is that you "NEED" and not necessarily want.

For example, EVERYONE that ever looks at a POS system and/or software ALWAYS ASKS if it comes with or has inventory capabilities. I would say that just about all of them do have some sort of inventory tracking capability within the software. Either it's included in the price or you can "upgrade" the software by purchasing what's called the inventory module, license, packet, or whatever name they give their inventory part of the software. The problem is that 95% of the people that get inventory NEVER EVER use it so it's a waste of money.

So...........to an extent, a POS company really can't give you a price WITHOUT FIRST figuring out what you NEED. Because, what will happen is you will say that you want this, and this, and that and they will quote you a price that will be astronomical in comparison to their competitor when all you needed was just a little bit of what they have to offer. So, they should've quoted or bidded you something different to suit your needs and get the deal. It's not fair to ask for one thing from one company and then something different from the next because they can't make a fair offer or price for their services. In the end, they end up losing the deal to their competitor because they "overquoted." I know this because of been there, done that. It sucks as a POS consultant.

So the main thing is to compare apples to apples if you can at least get close to doing so. Sure you can ask what their licensing costs up front, and they may tell you, but there are about a million differences from one software company to the next when it comes to POS software and you will find that some work better than others for a variety of reasons that you feel appropriate. This is called "value" and only YOU can determine which one will be best for YOUR NEEDS.

If you want to know station licensing, that's easy enough to get from them. It's the service, programming, and training that may or may not make all the difference to you in the end. Those things are pretty important.