Thugs!

[barworker]

This is going to be a "sensitive" post, and it is not my intention to offend or "single-out" any persons or groups.

I manage a nightclub and have spent the last year & a half "kicking a dead horse alive." I had worked at this club for 4 years, then took a 2 year vacation after I was satisfied with the "status" of the club, plus my contract with this club was over. I have since been called back because the idiots they left in charge took my 4 years of hard work & flushed it down the drain. Now 18 months later, we're back to being a "super-power" and according to the beer distributors, we put out nearly 20 times more than our competetors. We're extremely proud of our resurrected staff, and the Liquor Control Commission named us #1 in the state for fake ID's (89 since January). So were on top of the world right??? WRONG! Another club has shut down, which would normally mean more business to go around to us surviving clubs. However this club got shut down for having too many violations, and had way too many violent patrons. So now we are getting swamped with these "thugs." And believe me when I say that I am not refering to any specific minority. We're getting a "melting pot" of "gansters," "white trash," etc...(place your favorite slur here)...Whatever... I've tried everything I know to try to deter them. Strict, no tolerance dress codes, music format changes, acceptable forms of ID's reduced, blah..blah..blah. I know that with the other club gone they have to go somewhere, but there are many other clubs besides mine. If anyone has been faced with this dilema, and can offer any advice, please post or email me directly. For right now, they seem to only want to come in on Friday night. Our Saturdays are primarily the same old crowd. But anyone who has fought this battle knows that it's easy to get 'em in there... it's a nightmare trying to get them out. We've been in business for over 16 years, and it would kill me if anything ever happened on my watch...but I guess that's the thing that every bar manager / owner has to deal with every night. I would rather shut our doors forever than to put our "good" guests through a metal detector.

Thanks in advance.

-fellow barworker

[ZEN]

i have a sign in my club that reads "We reserve the right to kick anybody's ass out of here for any reason whatsoever." it reads that exactly. patrons get a kick out of it and doormen use it to weed out undesirables. don't be politically correct about the issue. say flat out "no...you can't come in." hope this helps a litle
good luck
zen
shepherd's nite club

[Bart-Man]

If the police appreciate you so much, then get them involved. Speak with the Lieutenant and plead your case to him. Ask if you can have a black and white in front. Just be sure that you alert them to your cause...that you are being overrun by a bad element and you want to remain a “safe and enjoyable” establishment.

Otherwise, did you try the cover charge yet? Worried about the regs, or desirable crowd, having to pay? Don't charge them. Only charge the folks you don't want inside. If anyone complains, just say these persons are VIP or whatever.

Different music formats, prices, attitudes and dress codes can make certain people feel unwelcome, even IF they seemingly do not care if they are welcome enough.

A strong door presence is where it’s at. As you are kicking undesirables out (carefully), inform them they are no longer allowed in. Be sure they are not! Ever! Find reasons to have them asked to leave. There are plenty. If you 86 the right guy, you can feasibly do away with an entire group of his/her followers.

Keep up the diligence. It'll happen, I'm sure. But it can be a volatile situation. Have a well-trained security staff at the ready. Let them know your plan. Communicate. Get radios. Believe me, there are bigger problems faced in this realm, and there is always a solution to them. Just have a goo plan and follow it. I have personally done away with similar problems and can say the longer you let it fester, the harder it will be. Showing immediate resistance would have been ideal, but I see that it was not your call at the time. Sounds like a guy like you, determined as you are, will get where you need to be.

[Andrew]

Barworker, you say that:

"I would rather shut our doors forever than to put our "good" guests through a metal detector"

Why is that? I thought all of us would be used to those things due partly to the Terrorism threat. If you change your policy to scan everyone, no-one should complain.

Why take the risk by not scanning everyone? If someone really wants to be at your club and are your good patrons, I don't see why they would mind. It is in all "good" people's interests.

[barworker]

To answer some of the comments, let me give you a background of the club & it's surroundings. Our club has been in business for over 15 years. We started out as a 50's & 60's nightclub. But when we got a 3am license six years ago, we couldnt keep the "older" crowd in past 11pm or so. We changed the music format to something more modern to try to get a younger crowd in for our late hours. The younger crowd created 4 times the revenue than the older crowd did, and they did it in only 3-4 hours. So we stuck with it. Today we primarily cater to 21-30 year olds and have gotten rid of the oldies music alltogather. We thought about bringing it back, but the old crowd has pretty much disappeared. We manage to cram in about 600 people on an average night, with another 70-80 more waiting in line outside. The fire marshall keeps our occupancy level on a pretty tight leash. We do have a sign that says we have the right to refuse service, but if we enforce it too much, it seems to always start a lawsuit. Since day one we have never had a cover charge, and that is one thing I cant talk the owner out of. We cant have police stand watch, they have a new rule about "side jobs." No officer can work for(on or off duty) -or- be on the property of a buisiness with a liquor license, unless they have been dispatched there. As far as the metal detector goes..besides the fact that I would never be approved for a 3000.00 stand up model, the owner will not allow his friends & guests to be patted down or be searched with a handheld detector. He's very very old fasion, and doesn't understand that this is strictly a safety issue. Believe me when I say that I'm on your side with these suggestions, but it seems like either my hands are tied on an idea, or there's a possible lawsuit. I may be paranoid, most of them seem harmless enough. Most of them are just a bunch of nontippingwaterdrinkingfoulmoutheddumbsongrequesti ngmorons.
I cant wait to see their faces when I disable the water on the "guns" and have only bottled water for two bucks. Anyways, tonight was friday night, and I saw less than half of them in tonight . Must have been the john denver music last week?? We'll see how next Friday goes. Thanks to everybody for letting me "vent" and thanks again for all the suggestions. We are going to implement one of the suggestions: Any violation of our rules will now result in being barred FOREVER.

-fellow barworker

[chaz23]

we are having the same problem at the club i work at as a shotgirl. it almost seems like the get a shot of henn and sip on it for 3 hrs and they dont tip! i spend half my nights listening to their retarted pick up lines and getting them to move out of my way. i come home with more brusies then i do money.
so far we have upped our dress codes (no sweat outfits, hooded sweatshirts, tee-shirts with writing, jerseys, ect..) we have also changed our music format, by not playing so much hip-hop. our crowed has kinda changed.

[barworker]

Try to stay strong. I'm trying to win this fight come hell or high water. We've had this new "zero tolerance" policy for about 5 weeks now and it's starting to show some success. As far as the "no tipping" goes. I ran into the same problem with my girls complaining. I changed the prices a little. Henn at old price was $4.00. Now at $5.25, there is at least a chance of the girls getting that 75 cents tip to make it an even dollar amount. It doesn't sound like much, but it can add up quickly. Stand hard on your dress code. That is a BIG way of keeping them out. However, make sure that you "word" your dress code correctly. We had someone try to sue us last year because they said it targeted minority groups so we had to revise it a little. I can email you what ours says if you like.

We added a new little thing to our list:
NO RIPPED, TORN, OR TAPED ID CARDS. The ID MUST be a valid, "unexpired" whole" ID. We turned away nearly 30 people on new years eve because of this infraction, and the police say it's OK! If it's taped or missing a portion of it...it can be construded(my 50 cent word of the day) as being an altered ID, therefore can be rejected. Make sure your security checks for expired cards too, you would be suprised on how many get through, they are also a good grounds for rejection.

[happybaboon]

Who would accept damaged ID anyway?

Its not easy to damage identification - thats kinda the idea... they are durable enough to carry around for a couple of years...

I would say that if someone presents you with damaged ID, there is a good chance that it's not theirs and that rather the original owner got a new ID, destroyed their old one and the person now presenting it found it while digging through a garbage can.

So I think it's not only entirely fair, but sensible to insist on your current requirements.

[Bart-Man]

Aside from your door looking like a billboard of do's and dont's, I must admit that having those disclaimers visible is a great tool for the needs you seek.

Disallowing undesireables for "legal" reasons or "company policy" should be posted at all times in order to avoid long, arduous arguments at the door or threats of suit. As you mention, be careful how you word them.

Some to consider:

"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"

"You MUST have proper ID present in order to enter this facility" (along with your requirements, which should also be specific)

"Proper attire required at all times"

"No bad or confrontational attitudes"

Now, we may let in someone who definitely is of age without showing thier ID, even if they don't have it. We might even allow entry to someone who is not dressed to our specific requirements if they are fine. But the signs do allow me to refuse service to, say, a street transient who stinks and is in pee-stained clothing for lack of ID even though he looks 50, or refuse admittance to an argumentative person. Door hosts can shine thier flashlight right to the sign..."It's posted, I'm sorry".

I just happen to believe that giving yourself all the outs you can fathom gives you a decisive edge when keeping out certain persons that are just plain, and fairly, bad for business.

One small note as well. When your door hosts are caught up in the argument phase in dealing with improper ID (i.e., international driver's licenses, expired ID's, etc.) one thing that works for me is making that person believe that you are at the end of your rope. They will argue up and down until they are convinced you cannot allow entry to them. Somehow, pointing to signs and reciting company policy does not always do this. I say, "Look, I have a very specific job in following this policy. I have a wife and two kids and I can't afford to lose my job! Hmm, this usually results in a very rewarding and long awaited "sigh" from the person who now knows you aren't bending any rules for a stranger who might lead his children to starve. Infallible thus far.