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yobillyboy
03-04-2004, 03:31 AM
Hi everyone,
A little about me before I get to my main point.
My partner and I are looking to open a bar probably in Manhattan or maybe Long Island within the next year. I have bartended on and off for several years, probably about 6 years total, from little bars to chains like Applebee’s and have owned my own construction bus for the past 12 years and my partner is a CPA.
We have prox. $250,000 and am considering a third partner if need be that is a bar manager and has money too, but prefer not to have to many head chiefs.
We want a small to medium size bar 2000 to 2500 sq ft. with dancing.
Some of my research has lead me here and I think this is a great site for insight, especially for newbies like me. But I have been lurking in the background for a while reading all the posts and absorbing all the good advise and one thing that has drove me nuts is reading the same basic questions over and over instead of researching through the full sight first, and for the experienced ones having to repeat themselves. I could see you guys getting annoyed.i think this new folder is a good solution. I realize that one of the keys to a startup is research and I have (hit the pavement) for almost 2 years now before attempting my startup (including going to the show in Vegas next week). One thing I have realized through my experience and research is there is not one answer to the most popular question of curios people here
“how much does a startup cost”? and “ how do I do it”?
I do think you experienced guys sometimes get a little complacent though from having to answer these questions a lot (understandably).

I too have some questions that I will probably be asking in the future but for now hopefully I can give some ideas that I have done as a person that is in the researching stage
èContact the local authorities (state, city and town all have main web sites) liquor authority, inspection dept, dept of labor, workman’s comp, fire, police for info on crime and more in possible areas, we have contacted commercial realtors that have told us important information on finding a location and have taken us to some, where we talked to the landlords to get an idea of what we’re facing with them. They also told us that it’s harder to borrow a little bit of money for a bus like this than to borrow a lot to say purchase a property for your bus that gives collateral. I am going to look at a place this week that is a complex for 1.6 mil with what used to be a restaurant with a small bar, and six other occupied spaces that will give us a $6000 a month income immediately.
Next contact web designers for quotes, average web design prox $2000 but go to local colleges that teach it and you might be able to get a student do it where he’ll use that as a final project. Go talk to local bar owners, they’re more willing to talk to you than you would think, contact the SBA and Score through there web sites. Score has counselors and bus owners in every industry that help you for free.
One of the hardest cost’s to figure is the construction of the bar. Me being a contractor I will be able to do a lot of it my self.
Well that’s a start. Some of these places may not have an answer for you but they will probably point you to someone else, witch is a question to ask everyone you talk to.
OK I think I’ve said enough for my first post
To all those dreamers good luck
and to the experienced ones thank you for your advice.

My partner has come up with a first rough draft of costs
I encourage input on this

APPROXIMATE START UP COSTS

MISC. CONSTRUCTION COSTS 10,800.00
CONSTRUCTION OF ACTUAL BAR AND MIRRORS 15,000.00
PLUMBING 15,000.00
ELECTRIC 15,000.00
REFRIGERATOR-BIG UPSTAIRS 6,000.00
WALK IN FREEZER-DOWNSTAIRS 4,000.00
REFIGERATOR BOX FOR DOWNSTAIRS-TO STORE KEGS AND TAP LINES/COMPRESSOR RUNNING FROM UPSTAIRS BAR 2,000.00
ICE MACHINE + INSTALL 2,000.00
UNDER BAR - BINS/ICE STORAGE/SINKS (GET IN BOWREY) CHEAP 1,000.00
IST AND LAST MTHS RENT 20,000.00
LIQUOR LICENSE 5,000.00
SPRINKLER SYSTEM INSTALLED UNLESS ALREADY THERE-COULD BE 10000.+ -
CABARET LICENSE 1,000.00
DRAFT SYSTEM INSTALLED 7,500.00
GLASSES 2,000.00
START UP LIQUOR AND BEER ETC…. 10,000.00
BAR STOOLS 1,500.00
BOOTHS/COUCHES/TABLES/CHAIRS 10,000.00
4 OR 5 TVS INCLUDING ONE BIG SCREEN TV 2,500.00
HEATING - DUCT WORK , FLOORS 6,000.00
STOVES - 2 OR 3 (FIND THEM LESS EXPENSIVE) 2,700.00
CUTTING TABLE / FRYERS /FRIDGE (GET DEALS IN THE BOWREY) 4,000.00
CON ED JUST TO TURN US ON - IVE BEEN TOLD 5,000.00
SOUND AND LIGHTING 5,000.00
COMPUTER SYSTEM OFFICE DESK ETC.. 2,000.00
ADVERTISING, UNIFORMS WAITRESSES/BAR TNDRS 2,000.00
MISCELLANEOUS 3,000.00
====>TOTAL ESTIMATED START UP COSTS 160,000.00
==>APPROXIMATE MONTHLY BUISINESS EXPENSES
RENT 10,000.00
ELECTRIC,PHONE,HEAT 600.00
BLANKET INS. POLICY-(WORKERS COMP AND BUIS.PREMISES,FIRE THEFT,ETC…(15,000.00 YR) 1,200.00
PAYROLL-STAFF 8 PEOPLE DAY(INCLUDES LUNCH AND NIGHT) @40.00 SHIFT X 6 DAYS AVG. PER WK X 4 WKS 7,700.00
ADVERTISING CONSTANTLY + MISCELLANEOUS 900.00
OWNERS PAYROLL (LIKE TO BE 300 PER DAYISH)=1800.00 PER WEEK EACH = 3600.00 WEEK(93,000 YR. EACH) 3,600.00
A DJ 3 DAYS A WEEKEND 2,000.00
SALES TAXES AND PAYROLL TAXES(P/R=600.00+SALES=2850.00) (P/R=7700 X 7.65%EMPLOYERS SHARE 3,450.00
OF SS. TAX) & SALES TAX TO SHOW BREAK EVEN POINT = 1100 DAY SALES X 31 DAYS = 2850.00)
ENTERTAINMENT (BUT ANY ENTERTAINMENT WE HAVE WOULD HAVE TO PAY FOR ITSELF -
WEATHER IT WAS A DOOR CHARGE OR JUST LIKE A BAND FOLLOWING /EXCESS PROFIT FOR NIGHT PAYS
THEM, OR ITS NOT WORTH HAVING THEM IN TWICE
====>TOTAL ESTIMATED MONTHLY COSTS 29,450.00
DIVIDED BY 4 WEEKS IN A MONTH = TOTAL WEEKLY COSTS 7,360.00
WEEKLY COSTS DIVIDED BY 6 DAYS IN A WEEK-(ISH) = DAILY COSTS 1,225.00
SAYING THE AVERAGE DRINK IS 5.00 PER DRINK , THE PROFIT HAS TO BE 3.00+ (PER DRINK), 408
SO WE NEED TO SELL 366 DRINKS PER DAY TO MAKE OUR BREAK EVEN WITH OUR SALARIES INCLUDES, DRINKS
THIS IS WITHOUT SELLING FOOD OR PROFIT TOWARDS FOOD CONSIDERED IN: ( NOT GOOD AT FIGURING SOLD
THAT IN YET, BUT IT WOULD LESSEN THE AMOUNT OF DRINKS WE WOULD HAVE TO SELL ETC…. PER DAY
408 PER DAY / 24 PER HOUR /

Shock G
03-04-2004, 02:26 PM
Seems like your renovation and startup costs may be way off! I hear you can't even get a sink put in for $15K in Manhattan....... you need to get with some contractors and talk general numbers to bring you closer to reality -

dapplegrey
03-04-2004, 03:49 PM
You left out trash removal and your energy costs are too low I think........

The sunk costs are easier to figure out than your monthly expenses which are not necessarily constant except for rent. I like your approach of getting things cheap from certain places but you need to build in a cushion (called contingency percentage) of each actual cost so that you are not caught short.

evileve23
03-04-2004, 06:43 PM
If you plan on having dancing at the bar, your sound and lighting estimate may be way off. <----- Just an extremely newbie's 2 cents

Cheek
03-05-2004, 01:26 PM
Do DJ's in manhattan really make $2000 for 3 days!!! I'm in the wrong business.:cool:

I'm used to like 350-400 for 3 days.

keithd
03-05-2004, 08:29 PM
I agree that your estimates for construction costs may be very low, especially for Manhattan. Also you completely left off legal fees which will probably run you $2,000-10,000 for startup and if you're talking about a POS computer system that will run closer to $15,000-30,000 (if not you need to consider cash registers, safe, etc.).

All, in all I think you've covered most things, but you're rounding down on a lot of the costs when you should be rounding up.

Oh and btw, I think he meant $2,000 per month for the dj working 3 nights per week.

Well, just my $.02!

Good Luck!

yobillyboy
03-05-2004, 10:34 PM
Thank for your inputs, I do have an on going list that I haven’t gotten numbers for yet and will add some of your points to the list so keep em comin.
Some of these figures came from two different bar owners in similar size bars.
As I mentioned I am a contractor and can do most of it myself with a crew and I also have various subcontractors/friends- electric, HVAC, plumbing, etc. that I have treated very well and been loyal to over the years that have said they would help me out at a fraction of their cost. What goes around comes around kinda thing.
Though I think the numbers I agree are still a little soft. Permits alone will probably be $10,000

And the $2000 for DJ is for a month so cancel that plane ticket.

I think going to the show next week will help answer a lot more numbers and questions like POS.