Hip-Hop Ruined my Club.

[clubexta]

I started a night club almost 4 years ago, at the begining as any new place, we were booming, we were the hot spot of the city, it lasted good 2 years, then it started to slowed down, first I lost my thurdays completely, we went from averaging 4k per night to $280. So I got despearte and started a $2 U call it College Hip Hop Night.

Sales went up to 7K per month, and with that a list of tragedies, fights, stabbing, newspaper, Tv, you name it, we had cops patrolling the area since 11pm and even with that every thursday there was something.

I tried to act quickly, hired more security, implemented dress code, (I did not change the music), raised the price to 2 domestics and anthing else $4 bucks,. that did not stop it..I genereated more revenue, we hit 10k in one night, however, the rest of my week, Wed.died totallally, my ladies night (friday) hit bottom, my Saturdays, were even the worst of all,.

I could not figured it out, I did not play hip hop on the weekend, it was mainly electronic, Wednesday was my Jazz.Boss Nova,... men, I had real good spenders..sight..

Newspaper rated me for the most unsafe place to hang out, and so did the good customers. I still have my thursdays rocking, but I soon will be out of this concept. A new partner has come to offer me a joint venture to start a Lounge, he's willing to invest at least 75K, to change the face of the club, no more hip hop, and target the adult 25 to 50 age proffesionals...

I would appreciate any advise on the Bar/Lounge concept.

Thanks

JJ

[captianjon]

I feel you pain. I run a ngihtclub/lounge. Right now experiencing the same thing. However, I don't play hip-hop. I just recently got rid of the crowd. I killed all of my specials for two weeks and implemented a specific dress code. Yes, sells were terrible that two weeks. I went from $15-$18 a week to last week just $6. This Saturday we finally had an acceptable crowd. It wasn't full but they were the good spenders. I am slowly offering specials to build it the crowd. I will never do a dollar night again. The lounge can be profitable if you market it right. I'm not sold on closing or changing the face of the club. I think that you hurt your biz more if you do that. Yeah my sells kiled me but I wouldn't have made anything if I shut down. This will be my fourth week of my drastic plan but I am already hearing positive imput from some of my regulars. They even stated that they haven't seen a cop car in are parking lot for a week. (yes, thats how bad it was). I don't know if this is the best way do go about it, but for right now it seems to be working. Please feel free to contact me if I can help.

Captain Jon

[clubexta]

Whats your music format?

[captianjon]

Now I do 80s and 90s rock. Its not the favorite with the crowd, but if I play just one hip-hop song they "thugs" come out of the woodwork.

[teenclub]

I started a night club almost 4 years ago, at the begining as any new place, we were booming, we were the hot spot of the city, it lasted good 2 years, then it started to slowed down, first I lost my thurdays completely, we went from averaging 4k per night to $280. So I got despearte and started a $2 U call it College Hip Hop Night.

Sales went up to 7K per month, and with that a list of tragedies, fights, stabbing, newspaper, Tv, you name it, we had cops patrolling the area since 11pm and even with that every thursday there was something.

I tried to act quickly, hired more security, implemented dress code, (I did not change the music), raised the price to 2 domestics and anthing else $4 bucks,. that did not stop it..I genereated more revenue, we hit 10k in one night, however, the rest of my week, Wed.died totallally, my ladies night (friday) hit bottom, my Saturdays, were even the worst of all,.

I could not figured it out, I did not play hip hop on the weekend, it was mainly electronic, Wednesday was my Jazz.Boss Nova,... men, I had real good spenders..sight..

Newspaper rated me for the most unsafe place to hang out, and so did the good customers. I still have my thursdays rocking, but I soon will be out of this concept. A new partner has come to offer me a joint venture to start a Lounge, he's willing to invest at least 75K, to change the face of the club, no more hip hop, and target the adult 25 to 50 age proffesionals...

I would appreciate any advise on the Bar/Lounge concept.

Thanks

JJ

hip hop didnt ruin your club

your club was ruined a long time ago...and you didn't fix it...then you lost thursdays...and didnt fix it...instead you went for cheap liquor and college kids...but still didn't fix it cuz you were desparate...

hip hop simply shined the light on a deeper problem you had a long time ago.

You tried to fix an old problem with new music and cheap drinks. The evidence is that your other nights died too...even though no hip hop.


WHY did you drop sales so much...where were people going and why? why did you lose a whole night?


even changing format and prices...you have a big PR issue to deal with...you are now known as the most unsafe place to hangout...will turning into a bar/lounge change that image?

I dunno...but answers to those questions will get to the heart of the problem instead of the popular misconception of "hip hop" being the problem.

[Bar757]

Perhaps Teenclub, but the crowd he's talking about can take a neighborhood bar down quick. They get labeled and stats don't lie. It DOES bring out the thugs, fights, drugs, cops & takes away your regular business crowd because they don't feel at home. You either are a club or bar that will cater to a certain crowd or not. For some it might be a country or a sports bar others a dance club or rock n roll band bar. What customers do you want in your place and cater to them. Now if your a large place I think several backrounds can coexist but not a small local joint.

I'm not a club owner but a patron and I'm not going to go to your bar if you've got thugs & fights happening every night. I'll spend my $100 bar tab somewhere else.

Again just me 2 cents.

[bigbeat]

I've dealt with much criticism about this topic. I've left clubs over this topic. I've had online fights/arguments about this topic. I left a DJ trade forum over this topic. I remain firm in my belief. Current Hip Hop has caused a demise in our nightlife industry and created a negative vibe in the clubs.

In January of 2004, I was having drinks with GRAND MASTER FLASH & THE FOUNDER OF "THE SOURCE" hip hop magazine (David Mayes) in Southern France after a music conference event highlighting this very topic. Both openly said that they were ashamed of the direction that hip hop has gone and that it is a a matter of time before it falls or gets so bad that it becomes boycotted. They weren't willing to go public in the states about it because of their reputation and also their position in the hip hop community. It was very frustrating for me because I wanted to see change.

Today, Russell Simmons, the founder of DEF JAM Recordings is going public about this very topic. He has made a firm stance with his label against negative hip hop. He is no longer willing to produce or sign any act that carries a negative message towards women, gangs, guns, violence, drugs, etc. He is also no longer willing to continue productions on any current act signed to Def Jam unless their songs have a more party or positive approach. Is this a violation of "Freedom of speech"? No. He owns the label and has every right to sign who and what he wants.

Some in the genre (hip hop) truly believe that their music won't sell unless they have proper street credibility (gang, shooting, prison, etc). Some believe that unless they include a recipe of lyrics like "bitches, hoes, money, guns, drugs, etc) that their music won't sell. Not true! Will Smith has never cussed or rapped about any of those things and he has remained on the top of his game. NAS has kept his music fun and his lyrics mostly clean. There are several hip hop artists who remain in the charts and in radio rotation who have a more positive approach to their songs.

True-- Hip hop isn't the problem. It's the songs that convince the listeners to try and live "the life" they hear in the songs. But, the style of the music does bring out the worst in people. A local hip hop club was shut down by the city and re-open as a country bar. A total different scene. Packed crowds without any fights or outside issues as before. Result....... A change of music created a change in the environment for the better.

I've stopped playing almost all hip hop in my clubs aside from the fun party themed songs almost 4 months ago. I now only play fun party mash-ups, rock, disco, funk, new jack swing, & 90's hits. The only newer urban formatted tunes are ones that are more girl friendly and fun to sing along to. I have been fully backed by my club managers and owners on this change.

The result of my change in music format......... A severe drop in fights both inside & outside our club. An increase in female attendance. A massive increase in bachelorette groups, birthdays, etc. We were voted the number one club in Denver for dancing. We received many local media write ups and continue to do record sales on my nights. Now, instead of people coming up with attitude asking for more "gangsta" or "snap", I'm getting requests for big hair rock or 80's new wave hits. Some are even the same people who were, in the past asking for hip hop. A trained audience that is very aware of the music format.

I will say this.......... Charge a "KMART PRICE" and you will get a "KMART CROWD". Give them everything they want and they will only be unsatisfied wanting more.

I'm sure I will get a lot of negative replies to this post. I don't care. I am firm in my belief and my clubs ARE WORKING well to this change.

[bruce]

I own a restaurant with a small bar and I agree with most of what you just laid out. I still like to watch a good fight [no guns or knives] at the bar down the street, as long as it is not at my place it is good for my business.

[teenclub]

Perhaps Teenclub, but the crowd he's talking about can take a neighborhood bar down quick. They get labeled and stats don't lie. It DOES bring out the thugs, fights, drugs, cops & takes away your regular business crowd because they don't feel at home. You either are a club or bar that will cater to a certain crowd or not. For some it might be a country or a sports bar others a dance club or rock n roll band bar. What customers do you want in your place and cater to them. Now if your a large place I think several backrounds can coexist but not a small local joint.

I'm not a club owner but a patron and I'm not going to go to your bar if you've got thugs & fights happening every night. I'll spend my $100 bar tab somewhere else.

Again just me 2 cents.

I wonder what "crowd" ths is that takes a neighborhood bar "down quick"

and I also wonder which "stats" these are that don't lie.

what decent person wants to go to a bar with thugs in it? who cares what music they are playing.

Question is...do you determine the "thugs" by how the people in line look...or by the actual reputation of the club.


Hip hop does not bring a certain type of crowd...your identity, marketing and service brings and keeps a certain type of crowd.

So to say hip hop does this and that, sorry sir, but you are WRONG! And so are all the other little bar owners that keep spouting such nonsense.

this is the biggest urban legend out for club owners...and we get into this "conversation" every once and again on this forum

Hip Hop, "that crowd", thugs..blah blah blah...its all code word for "BLACK PEOPLE" for many (not necessarily you)...and in some minds, I'm sure the word is much more "descriptive"

but here are the REAL STATISTICAL FACTS

Lets use my market --its a top TWENTY market (19 to be exact) with 3 million people

according to the NUMBER 1 hip hop station (and arbitron) they reach

53% WHITES
28% Blacks
19% Hispanic


according to the WALL STREET JOURNAL (http://online.wsj.com/public/article...339424546.html)
60% of Buyers are WHITE

this is not an anomoly but an actual well known fact in the music business nationwide.

I encourage you to find any station, in any market that is primarily hip hop, and I am quite positive the numbers will be 40-70% white listeners

back to this guys issue.

HIP HOP DIDNT KILL HIS CLUB...it died before he added hip hop. And he said he had an INCREASE in violent activity...not a new start on it.

Hip Hop (black people in particular) is always the easy scapegoat for bad management

ironically the complaints about hip hop are very similar to those of teens....everyone says its trouble...well at least everyone who sees it as an easy money cure, and have no interest or idea on how to promote it, try it arbitrarily and fail!

A person who is clueless about hip hop, is in the same position as a person who does a latin or carribbean night or any other niche night to cater to a culture and have no idea how to deal with them properly.

There are country and metal bars that are totally UNSAFE and full of thugs, fights, stabbings etc..and there are ones with no problem...the music is not the delimiter, the PEOPLE are.

Its no different with hip hop...its all about the crowd you (the owners) cater too.

the $2 all you can drink collegecrowd is not usually the best to go after if you don't want "trouble" and lower margins regardless of the color or music.

My 2¢

[teenclub]

True-- Hip hop isn't the problem. It's the songs that convince the listeners to try and live "the life" they hear in the songs. But, the style of the music does bring out the worst in people. A local hip hop club was shut down by the city and re-open as a country bar. A total different scene. Packed crowds without any fights or outside issues as before. Result....... A change of music created a change in the environment for the better.

you should change careers, you are a spinmaster that would make any politician rain money on you.

this statement implies the ONLY change was the music. And of course we all know...country music clubs NEVER have any problems

there is positive hip hop and negative hip hop...if all you play is negative music...what do you expect from the crowd?? lol

A wise DJ will never let the crowd do anything except dance/rest dance/rest

dance to keep energy up and sweat...rest to go buy some drinks to quench their thirst and get ready to sweat some more...have we forgotten the BASICS????

since when does music control crowds of people??? according to THAT logic...imagine how effective an army would be if all the leaders did was play hip hop for them all the time...lol

[teenclub]

The result of my change in music format......... A severe drop in fights both inside & outside our club. An increase in female attendance. A massive increase in bachelorette groups, birthdays, etc. We were voted the number one club in Denver for dancing. We received many local media write ups and continue to do record sales on my nights. Now, instead of people coming up with attitude asking for more "gangsta" or "snap", I'm getting requests for big hair rock or 80's new wave hits. Some are even the same people who were, in the past asking for hip hop. A trained audience that is very aware of the music format.

I know as a DJ...from your perspective...music is the end all, be all. I know this cuz every DJ feels he is the most important thing to happen to a club

hey a great DJ, especially one with a following definitely MAKES A DIFFERENCE IN A CLUB

but its only one part of the mix...just like a pina colada is not all about the rum but also requires coconut milk, pinaple, ice a nice glass, a napkin, garnish and a server to make it all (plus a fridge to hold it, a blender to mix it, a cash register with change)....a DJ and MUSIC is not all that makes the clubs CROWD

cover, dress code, security, theme, overall "vibe", the way you handle issues, marketing, Music MIX, specials, promotions, advertising, affiliations, staff training, service...etc all the inner workings of making a club a business...THAT is what determines your crowd.

If HIP HOP changes your club...you got issues beyond music, likewise...a well run club, can play hip hop with no problem.

I will say this.......... Charge a "KMART PRICE" and you will get a "KMART CROWD". Give them everything they want and they will only be unsatisfied wanting more.

well NOW your talkin business...finally something sensible...and you are 100% right...but guess what...that has nothing to do with music though, does it??

[bruce]

Teenclub; Someone really got you wound up today. It sounds like you could stand a trip to the country for a little R and R. Swing by Winlock, Wa, population 1335 as of last week, and I will buy you a dinner at The Firehouse Restaurant if you tell the waitress or bartender to call me. We are way more laid back out here. I also believe I have all the black trade in town as my customers and let me say here that they are very nice people, both of them.

[teenclub]

Teenclub; Someone really got you wound up today. It sounds like you could stand a trip to the country for a little R and R. Swing by Winlock, Wa, population 1335 as of last week, and I will buy you a dinner at The Firehouse Restaurant if you tell the waitress or bartender to call me. We are way more laid back out here. I also believe I have all the black trade in town as my customers and let me say here that they are very nice people, both of them.

all both of em? bwahahahahahahaha


good one..way to lighten up the thread

it just gets old...go through the archives here...hip hop and its "crowd" are always an excuse for what ails a club...ya know?

There only seem to be a few even keeled people that actually post (im sure more lurk) and realize people are people...no matter the color...and in the end

green is green

[Largo Robert]

all both of em? bwahahahahahahaha


good one..way to lighten up the thread

it just gets old...go through the archives here...hip hop and its "crowd" are always an excuse for what ails a club...ya know?

There only seem to be a few even keeled people that actually post (im sure more lurk) and realize people are people...no matter the color...and in the end

green is green

Well, a popular gay club down the street sold to a couple who cater to a hip-hop crowd, and the thugs have arrived, according to the Largo Police Dept.

They weren't playing Sinatra or C&W when the thugs came in.

They are now closed 3-4 nites a week, when they were open 7 before.

[teenclub]

Well, a popular gay club down the street sold to a couple who cater to a hip-hop crowd, and the thugs have arrived, according to the Largo Police Dept.

They weren't playing Sinatra or C&W when the thugs came in.

They are now closed 3-4 nites a week, when they were open 7 before.

isnt sinatra a thug himself...thats another thread

but sounds like they cater to THUGS..not the hip hopcrowd

you know the stations in this area -- 93.3, 95.7, 98.7 that play hiphop...ask them who their primary demo is

the second the "thugs arrived" they should have been promply thrown out on their arse...no second thoughts...no questions...no tolerance

then the rest of the decent citizens could have had that place to enjoy.

question...did they play hip hop when it was a gay club?

[bruce]

We have tweakers out here and they create their own problems. The people involved come from everywhere and tend to hang together. Some bars get a reputation for having tweakers hanging around and although they survive, they drive away a lot of business. A good dentist could make a living off them if he didn't mind taking payments in the form of stolen property. The meth they use destroys families and people to no end. I believe I need a better understanding of what is meant by THUG, I keep thinking of people with little man syndrome on alcohol. 10 foot tall and bulletproof.

[teenclub]

We have tweakers out here and they create their own problems. The people involved come from everywhere and tend to hang together. Some bars get a reputation for having tweakers hanging around and although they survive, they drive away a lot of business. A good dentist could make a living off them if he didn't mind taking payments in the form of stolen property. The meth they use destroys families and people to no end. I believe I need a better understanding of what is meant by THUG, I keep thinking of people with little man syndrome on alcohol. 10 foot tall and bulletproof.

I don't know what it means in THIS thread...but poke around here the last couple years

Hip Hop "crowd" and "thug" usually is code for black

too many black people scare the white people

think I'm exaggerating...read through even the last 12 months...one guy said he had to change his club cuz it was known as the "black" club and he didnt ever want to be that again cuz it scares the college kids away.

I guess its a 100% white college - i don't know

but here on NCB...references to hip hop and the "crowd it attracts", usually is black kids...but most are too afraid to say/admit it.

My thing is...be real....if you want an all white club..this is america..its your perogative

Just like if you choose an all spanish, indian, black whatever...but don't blame it on music

just say....too many black people are in the club and its hurting business

wait..that sounds silly and ignorant doesnt it..probably because it is

sounds much more sensible to say...its "hip hop" and thugs. yah thats it

HIP HOP and its CROWD kill clubs not poor management.

ok...off my soapbox

so how is it in WA...bet its beautiful country out there.

[bruce]

They call us the Evergreen State and with good reason. On the west side of the Cascade range [mountains not stove] we get a lot of moisture and it is green and wet most of the year, although not humid. Today we are getting plenty of sunshine mixed with a few clouds. This is best veiwed from flat on your back in 3' tall grass. [my front lawn] I'll mow it next year. We have nothing very dangerous like the east side might find [rattlesnakes,black widows, etc] so laying around in the tall grass is relaxing sometimes. At least till the kids or grandkids come to see what I am doing. My veiw from my yard is limited, but a mile away there is a veiw of three mountains on a clear day, Mt. St. Helens, Mt. Raineer, and Mount Adams. All less than 100 mile drive to see. You can actually drive to snow line on all three and back to my house in less than 6 hours. And if you wanted to you could make the Pacific Ocean in about 2 hours more. You could listen to Hip Hop almost the entire way or talk radio.

[bigbeat]

I don't know what it means in THIS thread...but poke around here the last couple years

Hip Hop "crowd" and "thug" usually is code for black

too many black people scare the white people

LOL -- Why does music always bring up the color card? REALITY HERE --- My worst thugs and rude girls are white & Latin (oh no.. here comes more race hate replies) people. Not black people. Color don't mean shit. I find it amusing that it seems everyone who defends hip hop always uses color as an excuse. It ain't about color, or at least with me, it ain't. I'm sorry-- Isn't............

Some of my best regulars are very cool "black people" who wish I would play more hip hop but enjoy the night none the less. The most rude, arrogant, disrespectful demographic are guys who try to imitate the lingo, dress & mannerisms of what they see on MTV. Truth. Fact. Reality.

Even in your area (Tampa) not too far away in Orlando one of the bigger more popular clubs have recently changed the music format to only play a limited amount of hip hop. That club is Tabu. Why do I know this? I am very good friends with the resident DJ. He mentioned how it has been getting out of hand and that something needed to change. The owner agreed that the music must change or else they will simply change the entire theme of the night. Color was never mentioned or implied. Music only. Today, (several months later), they are doing much better. Smaller crowd numbers from 2500 per night to about 2200 per night but an overall better vibe because of the music change.

Regarding the DJ being the "End all be all" of the nightclub is false. I changed the music format with the help and backing of my Management & security. It was a united effort by the entire club including a change in the music description on the fliers.

In a sports bar, the TV's drink specials and games are most important. In a neighborhood bar, etc. etc. etc. In a "Dance" club, music is the most and how it is presented important thing. I'm sorry but they come to "Dance". Your music, DJ, sound, lighting & go go dancers must all be in synch. We don't have drink specials, reduced door prices, etc. There is nothing other than the fact that people come to enjoy the music with their friends in a club that can give them the room, comfort & atmosphere they desire.

I do play hip hop but very little of it and combined with a much broader variety in other musical genres including motown which has also been considered "black" music. Again, it is not about color. It is all about attitude.

[bigbeat]

Last thing then I'm done here..........

I recently got hired to spin at a club on Friday's. The manager of the club specifically told me to avoid any hip hop with negative lyrics. I was also instructed to rotate the music through the genres as much as possible even if the entire floor clears. They would rather have the entire club empty out before they were in a situation as what we have heard on these very forums.

An Irish Pub in San Francisco which offered DJ dancing on Fridays & Saturdays was financially backed by a private funder was told to "quit DJ dancing at once" or the private funder threatened to pull out. Reason-- Police reports every weekend giving the Irish themed Pub a bad reputation to the day time regulars as well as the private financial backers. Guess what the music format was---- 100% hip hop. The police had to break up fights outside while in other situations, cars were vandalized and other public threats occurred. They changed DJs who started playing more 70's, 80's & 90's format with very little current music (all styles) and the investors saw a drop in Police reports & a rise in revenue and decided it was OK to continue with "DJ dancing" as long as the music stayed fun & upbeat and there were no more Police issues. It has been two months since this happened and they are still going strong.

This is all fact. Not my own personal view on things.

[gknoob]

OK, just my $.02, but I have to agree with Brian. Music is only one part of what makes a dance club work, but it is the quickest one that will make or break the club. At a dance club your DJ is the star of your show. That's right I said it, sorry to all the other club owners, but I am gonna give some DJ's a big head.

If you do not want someone to be the star of your show get a computer or an IPod and hook that up. Not all DJ's are right for all venues tho. You have to have a star of your show that matches what you are trying to do there. You have to have a star that is capable of taking suggestions and is not rigid in what they think is right.

The star of your show has to know he is in control of many things. I have been a DJ for many years. Many years before I was a club owner, and will still DJ from time to time. When I was just a DJ at a club I had to prove to one club owner how much influence I had over the crowd. I always joked that I could make groups of people move from one place to another just by what song I played. The owner comes up to the DJ booth, and I tell him I can move this group(it was about 25 people) from one positon on the floor to about 20 feet closer to the dance floor with one song. I played the song and sure enough the entire group walked that distance. None of them danced to that song. None of them actually even got on the dance floor. I just repositioned a group of people because of a song.

You find a DJ that knows his crowd that well, and you will be able to do anything you want. Play hip-hop, play country, it doesn't matter, but have a DJ with control and understanding of what he is doing there.

[VB_GEX]

First:

I also believe I have all the black trade in town as my customers and let me say here that they are very nice people, both of them.

AAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! That's great!!!!

Anyway, this IS NOT about race! Yes, country and metal clubs have their fights...mmmm ....every now and then....but so does anywhere that serves alcohol....

I travel all over the country for my 'day job' and I 'research' other clubs and venues where ever I go. And I don't mean just going into the building. I talk to people. I ask the employees how much they make and how things are run there. I ask the locals and customers what they think of the place and what they would want different...they usually tell me I should stay away from 'this or that club' specifically because I would run the possibility of getting hurt...and guess what? they're the HIP-HOP CLUBS! And finally...believe it or not...when I come across some...especially if they are around the club when I'm there...I talk to the cops! (note:BEFORE I start dinking lol) And you know what THEY say?!? Well...I'll give you 3 guesses and the first 2 don't count.....

NUMBER 1 issues they have- H-I-P-H-O-P C-L-U-B-S

And I got the same answer about clubs in ATL as I did in 'corn-bred not a single person of any kind of color other than a farmer's tan' Texas/Ohio/S. Dakota/and Illinois.......

hhhhmmmmmmmmm....so no...I don't think it's just because he plays hip-hop. @@

[teenclub]

LOL -- Why does music always bring up the color card? REALITY HERE --- My worst thugs and rude girls are white & Latin (oh no.. here comes more race hate replies) people. Not black people. Color don't mean shit. I find it amusing that it seems everyone who defends hip hop always uses color as an excuse. It ain't about color, or at least with me, it ain't. I'm sorry-- Isn't............

Some of my best regulars are very cool "black people" who wish I would play more hip hop but enjoy the night none the less. The most rude, arrogant, disrespectful demographic are guys who try to imitate the lingo, dress & mannerisms of what they see on MTV. Truth. Fact. Reality.

Even in your area (Tampa) not too far away in Orlando one of the bigger more popular clubs have recently changed the music format to only play a limited amount of hip hop. That club is Tabu. Why do I know this? I am very good friends with the resident DJ. He mentioned how it has been getting out of hand and that something needed to change. The owner agreed that the music must change or else they will simply change the entire theme of the night. Color was never mentioned or implied. Music only. Today, (several months later), they are doing much better. Smaller crowd numbers from 2500 per night to about 2200 per night but an overall better vibe because of the music change.

Regarding the DJ being the "End all be all" of the nightclub is false. I changed the music format with the help and backing of my Management & security. It was a united effort by the entire club including a change in the music description on the fliers.

In a sports bar, the TV's drink specials and games are most important. In a neighborhood bar, etc. etc. etc. In a "Dance" club, music is the most and how it is presented important thing. I'm sorry but they come to "Dance". Your music, DJ, sound, lighting & go go dancers must all be in synch. We don't have drink specials, reduced door prices, etc. There is nothing other than the fact that people come to enjoy the music with their friends in a club that can give them the room, comfort & atmosphere they desire.

I do play hip hop but very little of it and combined with a much broader variety in other musical genres including motown which has also been considered "black" music. Again, it is not about color. It is all about attitude.

agreed...but your first post made it seem...all that was needed was a music change.

music must change...SOMETIMES...in the end its the overall club

nothin a good "no" person at the door can't solve most of the time.

YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO NOT LET CERTAIN PEOPLE INTO YOUR CLUB!

[teenclub]

OK, just my $.02, but I have to agree with Brian. Music is only one part of what makes a dance club work, but it is the quickest one that will make or break the club. At a dance club your DJ is the star of your show. That's right I said it, sorry to all the other club owners, but I am gonna give some DJ's a big head.

If you do not want someone to be the star of your show get a computer or an IPod and hook that up. Not all DJ's are right for all venues tho. You have to have a star of your show that matches what you are trying to do there. You have to have a star that is capable of taking suggestions and is not rigid in what they think is right.

The star of your show has to know he is in control of many things. I have been a DJ for many years. Many years before I was a club owner, and will still DJ from time to time. When I was just a DJ at a club I had to prove to one club owner how much influence I had over the crowd. I always joked that I could make groups of people move from one place to another just by what song I played. The owner comes up to the DJ booth, and I tell him I can move this group(it was about 25 people) from one positon on the floor to about 20 feet closer to the dance floor with one song. I played the song and sure enough the entire group walked that distance. None of them danced to that song. None of them actually even got on the dance floor. I just repositioned a group of people because of a song.

You find a DJ that knows his crowd that well, and you will be able to do anything you want. Play hip-hop, play country, it doesn't matter, but have a DJ with control and understanding of what he is doing there.

can you make people move from outside the club, to pay to come inside with just a song? now THAT would be a neat trick!

[teenclub]

saying hip hop draws thugs is like saying techno draws gays and trance draws druggies

in the end...there are classes of people of all races...and the music is NOT what separates them